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Lucky13

2018 Stocking levels

113 posts in this topic

20 hours ago, Lucky13 said:

Public consultation clearly indicates support for both a diversity of salmon and trout, dominated by trophy-sized Chinook Salmon, and protection and restoration of native species. The LOC acknowledges that managing for Alewife numbers to sufficiently support Chinook Salmon may limit restoration of some native species to their full potential. The Lake Ontario  ecosystem is a mix of native and non-native species and has remained very resilient during the last 25 years.  Despite an onslaught of invasions and rapid ecosystem change, Lake Ontario has provided a diversity of fish-related benefits.

Honing in a bit more on the opening of the FCO's,  which I posted before. 

 

The Binational Stakeholder's group was told in May that there are no plans for the foreseeable future to modify the FCO's.   The King is the top dog in that statement, and for the pelagic niche in  the detail of the document.  That is the policy guidance document for USA and Canada. 

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2 hours ago, King Davy said:

It’s too bad these conversations on a web board get personal. Gill-T you don’t know me, or anything about me, and my 45 years

 

Finally….for all others please accept my apology for being a tad irritated.  Gill-T…get off your keyboard, come to Rochester, and buy me a Scotch, and I’ll teach you all the things you THINK you know about me, but you obviously don’t

 

Dave, your name got thrown into the same mix as Lucky because you both have messaged the same rhetoric here on LOU that there are "anglers you know" that want no stocking of king salmon. I know you and Lucky understand the biological reasons of why that feat would be impossible given the nature of Lake Ontario today so I would hope that you guys would shout down those whom are ill informed.  The behind closed door meetings do nothing but incite conspiracy theories. I would gladly buy you a scotch (I am a beer man myself) as I prefer face to face rather than the cold internet.  Please understand  the nature of my rant. Were there is smoke there is fire. If there is a movement behind the scenes to get rid of chinook salmon, this forum is a great place to bring those who hide in shadows out into the light. You and Lucky were the ones to state your fishing circle has anti-king sentiments. My apologies if I branded you as guilty by association.  I would hope that in your leadership positions you would remember we are all stakeholders. Carry the concerns of the lunatic fringe but champion the wishes of the majority. 

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42 minutes ago, Gill-T said:

lunatic fringe

This coming from a guy who calls his boat Gill-T Hooker?

 

43 minutes ago, Gill-T said:

I know you and Lucky understand the biological reasons of why that feat would be impossible given the nature of Lake Ontario today so I would hope that you guys would shout down those whom are ill informed.

I think we have been doing this quite well for a number of years.  I hope you understand that without the alewife, there is nothing for kings to eat, and the LO Committee efforts and restraint are geared toward prevention of that.   And tributary anglers were certainly not the first to engage in "behind closed door meetings!" 

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"Behind closed door meetings"  That anyone or organization can set up anytime --- I have done it many times personally & with Genesee charter boat assoc. meetings & Great Lakes Fisheries events/dinners &  on Bi-National calls/meetings ETC....    OR      MANY recent public meetings in the US & Canada that VERY FEW if any people attend.........The later is worse..

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

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Gill- T …I know as long as there is a FERC  license with the power company on the Salmon River, we will have Chinook Salmon forever. Sure there are people who would like the King Salmon program to end, they are trout fishermen, walleye fishermen, bass fishermen, on and on. How about fresh water Striped Bass.

Honestly I don’t care to address any more the nonsense of somebody wanting to do away with Kings, just as I’m tired of all the absolutely ridiculous statements from those who think the DEC and the Feds have some clandestine plan to replace Pacific Salmon with Atlantic Salmon.

There is so much shooting from the hip on these web boards, and the knowledge is a phone call away to your regional managers. Of course they read this board EVERY day, and know how much some of you distrust them even after managing this fishery for a half century to be what it is today…a world class fishery both in the Lake and the tribs. So maybe they won’t take your calls.

What a shame after all these years, we are so divided and profiled that Lake guys think trib guys and Vice Versa are not after the same thing.  All we all want to do…is “FISH to FISH”…and if the fish I favor to fish to is different than yours….why is that a problem? And or especially the method….and more important as long as my method is ethical, and legal….has nothing to do with being an elitist.

We have wasted so much opportunity, burned so many bridges being divided, when we have so much talent in stakeholders, and some of the top Scientific professionals from both the State DEC, MNR, and USGS, to where we could be leveraging all of our experiences and their knowledge to sustain this great resource.

The target has to be universal, and for the life of me I can not fathom why instead is controversial. The target should be for every man women and child that wants to fish for trout and salmon is a healthy 12 month a year fishery that undoubtedly is used heavily by stakeholders interested in both the open waters of the lake, as well as it’s many breathtaking rivers and streams.  

As far as meeting with DEC…THEY ASKED US TO MEET last Feb!!!! THEY INVITED US…..oh was I yelling? They knew that last winter was year three of a devastating low success rate of Steelhead fishing, and for what ever reason poor brown trout returns. There were businesses closing their doors, and some barely hanging on with up to 50% loss of revenue. It GOT their attention. So they wanted to talk to trib concerned stakeholders.

They also know that a Public meeting was not going to be as focused as having a invited group that could substantiate …or Not…what they were hearing, and what their creel census was showing them. Much like the focused BiNational group. Were there people in the room that may have favored one species over another…sure….But this wasn’t a meeting to make policy and regs, or shut down anything. It was an information collection opportunity.

We truly have to stop all this nonsense of mistrust. The avg trib angler is not unhappy or offended that the lake fishing is good. It’s actually the opposite, we know if there is good fishing in the lake ….hopefully it will translate to great returns to our rivers. In the case of Steelhead since the die off in 2014, what ever the fishing was on the lake ….DID NOT translate to the tribs. I’m sure the average lake concerned angler can understand that when we are standing in 34 degree water trying to catch a fish…we are truly interested in actually fishing to fish. That’s our only requirement. But how is that any different than a person out in a boat. 

When the Steelhead fishing crashed we didn’t demand more fish…because we KNOW that isn’t possible. There is no space, and adding more pressure to the forage base that is in question on how steady it is….isn’t the right answer either. This would be an opportunity if we were truly a brother and sisterhood of concerned anglers for all (trib and lake) to say….you know steelhead numbers are down. Let’s maybe not take as many and more important let’s handle these fish with the upmost care to get them back….and hopefully in a year or so things will  trun around. And maybe that did happen, but we are so divided we don’t even discuss these kinds of courtesies .

Gill T you can drink all the beer you want, but I drink 12 year old single malt (yeah it’s a Fly Fishing Elitist Thing)  the most expensive you can afford…and I know Dr…you can afford it.. Bring your credit card maybe two or three….…you’ll need it.    

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Thanks for the clarification on the meetings. It would have been nice to know the historical background of non-public meetings prior to my rant. Why was the charter associations so up in arms about the "secret meeting" last year if these are common place?

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It was a focus group of folks who spent all or at least half their time in the case of the Charter boat /River Drift boat guides that were invited.. on a river. For the record, the message I sent out to folks invited came from references I received from the DEC and local stakeholders. Some took offense of me....when in actuality I didn't personally invite anybody except a couple folks from our region 8 TU group. Some who were also guides.

 

The target was to have an informational talk with people who were very close to the day to day fishing on the rivers. There were several business owners there who had collected comments thoughts and observations from the 1000's of customers they had through their shops and businesses the past three years. You'd have to ask the DEC for sure, but I believe they came away happy with the participation, professionalism and candor of the participants.

 

Of course with all the mistrust swirling around ...this was labeled a Secrete Meeting ...A request was made by DEC to speak to highly knowledgeable tributary stakeholders...and that's what they got.

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This bickering is so gay, and I feel like you guys go round and round EVERY year on LOU. I've stayed out of this in recent years and instead tried to understand the DEC. I go to every public meeting they hold and this is where I voice my opinions and ask questions. Not on the internet against the keyboard gangstas.

 

I think if we all did the following we'd be better off on this WORLD CLASS fishery:

  • Go to the public meetings.
  • Listen to the data the DEC has.
  • Ask questions to challenge it.
  • Help with the pen projects.
  • Go catch fish!

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Good advice and well taken Rick:yes: A lot of the suspiciousness and mistrust does appear to relate to a lack of information and lack of direct involvement in the process which could be improved by taking an active part in the meetings, and that certainly is not the fault of the DEC.

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On 9/15/2017 at 10:13 AM, Yankee Troller said:

This bickering is so gay

 

 

Yes Rick, I am using this forum to come out of the closet.  Going to change my boat name to "hole in my transom".  

 

I agree the bickering is stupid and will admit I have stuff going on right now in my life that has me particularly on edge.  Rick, I think you would agree that a lot of good has come out of these threads on stocking figures/ alewife numbers-sampling methods/ functioning of Altmar/ pen projects etc etc.

 

 

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Back in the late 1950's and 1960's Lake Erie was considered dead. It was not dead, just dominated by a foreign invader called smelt. These little critters consumed the fry and fingerlings of the blue pike, lake trout, whitefish, ciscoes and cold water fish. The blame landed on if it could happen was commercial fishing. In 1964 the Ontario commercial fishing industry began trawling and shipping the smelt to Asian markets. We started stocking Coho salmon here and the smelt became under controlled conditions. The perch and walleyes, bass began to return to the greatest fishery for food fish on the lake. Sportfishing groups called for walleye stocking and the biologists called it futile. The alewife is another saltwater invader and it and the smelt dominated Lake Ontario then. Due to high contaminant levels, they were termed unsafe for human consumption . The only control available to keep the beaches clean of alewives was the salmon and trout stocking programs. This created sportfishing interest today and we have pressure on the the educated fishery managers to increase the salmon stocking numbers. One group has logical conclusions fighting against money chasing interests. There you go.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

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10 hours ago, jimski2 said:

This created sportfishing interest today and we have pressure on the the educated fishery managers to increase the salmon stocking numbers. One group has logical conclusions fighting against money chasing interests. There you go.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

 

 

Jimski, not sure what you were intended with this statement as the internet does not reflect true meanings sometimes but..... of all the stakeholders (all have financial interest) on both sides of the lake that voted on the 2017 cuts, all except one voted FOR the cuts.  Everybody on both sides of the arguments presented on this forum want proper stewardship.  There is not necessarily a right or wrong answer as nobody has a crystal ball.  

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