Sk8man

We did see some weeds near shore at Sampson when we were there the other day on the surface but the way the wind was blowing the probably washed up on shore by the end of the day for sure There was also a mudline outabout 150 ft from shore as well because of the wave action. It seems like the fleas seem to cycle a bit in these lakes. or maybe they are just in different stretches of the water column than where I happened to fish at the time but last time out on Canandaigua I didn't encounter any at all. In any even they are a pain in the a.. whenever encountered anywhere at any time

A slider is a mono leader about 7 or 8 ft. long (shorter than your rod) that acts as a second line with a lure on it attached to your main line with a lure on it. It has a snap swivel at both ends with your "other" lure at one end of it.You first run your main line iut to the desired length (say 30 ft) and let the lure down about 15 ft. and then attach the non-lure end of the slider (the other swivel snap) to the main line and let it down into the water. You then let both lines down to the depth you prefer (say 50 ft). The slider will seek out the belly of the slack in your mainline and for the most part stay there but at change of speeds and turns it can move up or down (hence the name"slider") It gives a lot of action to the lure and most of the salmonid family like it even at higher speeds. If or when a fish hits the slider instead of the lure on the mainline and is fighting he releases the main line from the release and the slider slides down to the other lure but the swivel is too small to go over it so it just stays there. When you bring in the fish the importance of length of the slider becomes apparent.....you need it shorter than your rod so you can net the fish. It is possible to use a longer leader but then you have to pretty much "hand line" the fish once you reach the main line lure. I hope this helps.... I tried to be as specific as I can. It is much easier to be shown I think.

A couple things come to mind....the speed at which you are trolling and how you are running your equipment. i don't know whether you have a water temp meter of any type but it would be helpful to find out where the thermocline .is located at right now (point in the water column where the water changes greatest between consecutive depths) . This is not the scientific definition but hopefully it works for you (can change even in the course of a day some places but can also be stable for a bit too from one location to another or one day to next). Lake trout are going to be preferring something like 42-48 degrees while the landlocks will prefer 50 to 56 degrees or so (these are rough mid ranges not the low or highs they are found in). This suggests that you fish for each species differently, and also that you can try fishing for each species exclusively or both at the same time but with different tactics because they will probably be located in different "layers" of the water column. My suggestion is to fish exclusively for each at first (either lakers or the landlocks) until you start connecting with them fairly consistently. They each for the most part respond to different speed ranges and tactics as well as the temps differences. Hopefully you have something to somewhat accurately gauge your speed GPS or speed impeller on your fish finder. Lets look at the lakers first: Lakers are often "bottom huggers" but also suspend in deeper water. Lake George is somewhat similar to the Finger Lakes (rather than Lake Ontario) so many of the things that work real well in the FL's will work there. Try to find bait suspended or bottom-oriented and fish near it. Look for them on the fish finder to be deep in the water column and/or on bottom and compare your temp readings of the water column with where the preferred temp range either meets or is just above the bottom. There are many versions and sizes of cowbells and I'm not sure what (or how you are running them) but with downriggers you need to get near but not on the bottom and you need to know the bottom real well where you are fishing too to avoid hanging up your weight. A way to minimize this is to start in a little shallower from where you are marking the fish and fish from shallower to deeper gradually with the ball say a couple or 5 ft. off bottom and gradually keep lowering the weight as you go out deeper. This is assuming that you are running your cowbells close to the weight (say 10 ft or less). If you are using something like the flatfish behind it or something that dives erratically run a little higher off bottom than you would for say a flutter spoon to avoid hang ups. My strong suggestion is to order some "peanuts or wobble trolls or spin n glows" to use behind cowbells and run them 18 inches to 24inches behind the cowbells. Run the cowbells at about 1.8 or 9 to 2.3 or so. It can change depending whether going across current or against it....Don't fish WITH the current if possible. Frequently (and carefully) raise or lower your downrigger just slightly (say 5 ft.at most) and travel in "s" patterns with turns. If you are in a smaller boat and it is very calm try rocking the boat back and forth a little in case something is following and may hit because of the change in action. Landlocks: Again look at the temperature profile. Look around at the depths suggested by the preferred temps.Try to find bait and if possible suspended or bottom oriented fish around it (the preferred temp and/or bait). Try a combination spoons (e.g. Stingers Small Evil Eyes, Sutton 22's or 44's or 8's or 11's and stickbaits (e.g. Rapala J-9, Small to medium Yozuri's, Renegades, or Rebels etc. ) Especially with the spoons - use sliders about 7 or 8 ft long (depending on rod length) with smaller and light spoons about 12 or 15 ft from your main lure) (you want them "whipping" around near the prop wash area down).I run stickbaits back from 50-100ft and spoons from 15-75 ft back depending on conditions and the particular spoon (remember though more slack whenthey are run further bach and the first thing you may see is a jumping fish way in back of the boat . If you run sliders with stickbaits leave more room between them say 20ft.) Most of the time the landlocks will be roaming around near bait or structure such as points or stream mouths. They often respond real well to speed of lures (although Sutton's are not known for doing well at speed the smaller ones mentioned do OK) so I'd say start at 2.0 and go up to 3.0 or so. They have even been known to hit at much higher speeds but those aren't the lures for it. They often hit at a change of speed and on fairly radical turns. I sometimes go into idle for a second or two and then give it some gas and make a bunch of turns and this works for rainbows as well. I know other folks will perhaps have very different ideas and things that work but over the years this has been my BASIC approach and it has worked quite well. Les

Yes ditto on the above and the wire is easier to get rid of them with...cuts through them ( Just slide them down in a bunch and pull and it cuts through them. The worst part is getting the smell of your hands afterward

Thanks for the report Ed. Yesterday Justin and I were at Sampson intending to go real early but it just wasn't worth it with the wind and then it kept getting worse as we waited to see what it would do. Hopefully we'll get another chance sometime. At least I picked up some good tips on the walleyes Les

For mine the 2/0 on the Nk28's and 3/0 on mags - single Mustad stainless steel 3x or 5x Siwash Salmon hooks work fine.

The 309's are a heck of a lot better drag and higher capacity etc. than the 209's and the Penn 320GTI's are are not bad reels with an improved drag over the other two. Do yourself a favor though and ANY Penn trolling reel you use get power handles for them from Penn or an after market reseller. They will make your life easier on the retrieve cycle. I'd also put at least 50ft or so of 30 lb mono on the spool first to reduce slippage and binding.

John is right on target (as usual) and there have been a lot of previous posts regarding many aspects of using braid and wire....I'd check them out first then if there are further questions.... they'd go here.

I'm willing to bet that it was "staged". That guy is an ego maniac and is an old school KGB dude and has the "little man syndrome" thinking the macho image and puffing himself up is proof that he is "macho man" and is the way to impress the world (how many other world leaders take their shirts off and flex their muscles for pics?

I've been using it for a few weeks now on 2 downrigger rods. I was able to get just about 280yds on the 47H's. It work great as an anti flea line. The only downside to itthat I've found if the incredible stretch. I have to keep re tightening my downrigger rods because of it. At first I thought it had messed up in the release and was sliding but I was able to stretch the line greatly with my hands and I've never seen line stretch that much. All and all I like it but jst be aware ofthat factor. Les

I think Ray K is right on the mark...it is probably a weight distribution problem and it happens with outboards as well. I think it can be too much weight in the back relative to the front and can also occur with too much difference in weight on one side or the other as well. It probably causes some bow lifting (maybe gradual and unnoticed) or less surface area contact with the water where the guiding chines go on a diagonal path.

Happy Birthday Ray! Makes ya wonder if the plumber crack gets wrinkles on it at your age

At this point I'm kinda chuckling to myself as I read our responses to this interesting question...we all have our little favorite distances and habits that seem to work for us (or we probably wouldn't be as attached to them as we are). It also occurs to me that we are are a rather curious (and perhaps "superstitious") breed because we think our own systems are perhaps the last word in fishing (myself included) . It is entirely possible that another factor is at work here in terms of the distance between the lure and us and that it resembles a "random event". Kings are thought to hit lures for a couple of reasons a) a feeding response, and b) out of aggression/territoriality. At the point they are "homed in" on their imprinted ancestral spawning area the feeding response is considered to be significantly reduced if not entirely gone and the urge to reproduce takes over and along with it territoriality and aggressive defense of it...this is what happens in the streams....but it also happens before they arrive while still in the lake looking for their "home base" It is no accident that bright colored or shiny objects become their targets....anything that stands out in their environment is a potential"rival", "intruder" or "foreign object" to be attacked and both males and females respond to it. The feeding response on the other hand is often thought to be increased in that period immediately prior to spawning and while the kings are still largely "silver" and out in the lake roaming. My hunch is that a) they are in an active "looking" state and anything that is in close proximity to them and presents itself as a vulnerable, wounded, or solitary "target" that might have been separated from the baitfish school (and the action of it suggests this to them) it will be aggressively (and sometimes "savagely") hit and consumed, and b) if our lure happens to be that target operating at 8, 15, 20, 25, or 50 ft. from our boat and these conditions apply we will be on the other end of a King salmon. Many of the latest patterns and colors of lures don't resemble anything even remotely looking like their natural food but they do look foreign to the environment perhaps triggering the aggressive response while looking for food. If something about the action and appearance of the lure on the line looks suspicious or "off" somehow they look but "don't touch" and move on to something appearing more vulnerable or "right" to them. That's my theory of it all and I know that it won't fit all my fellow fishermen's belief systems but I'm throwing it out there especially for "newbies" to think about as they pursue these great creatures.

I had my Marathons for 11 1/2 seasons

Great job Matt! As a vet I thank you for doing it and hopefully nobody would have a problem with your calling attention to it on this site because there are a number of vets on here. Les P.S. I whole heartedly agree with your statement above too.

dre you have a PM Les

Good going! Glad things worked out for you.