NYS Governor trying to dismantle the DEC ECO’s

[Gill-T]

This is a high priority call to action for anyone that wants to protect their ability to hunt in NYS. I have it from an anonymous budget watchdog source that Governor Hochul has cut the DEC’s 20 year pension out of the current iteration of the budget. This move appears to be the beginning of a stepwise way of phasing out the DEC. The writing was on the wall with the commissioner and vice commissioner announcing they were stepping down. Cuomo started the process when the DEC would not back him in his last governor’s race, wouldn’t back the Safe Act, and blew the whistle on Cuomo when he tried to steal earmarked money from the outdoor fund.  Hochul has continued Cuomo’s vendetta.  There have been discussions and attempts to roll the duties of the DEC into the Forest Rangers even though Rangers don’t have the law enforcement or firearms training the DEC get. This is the beginning. Without a regulating body to help oversee hunting season, they will argue that there cannot be hunting. This is the back door way downstate will try to get rid of guns. BELIEVE IT, THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING. So coming soon to an outdoor venue near you……open season for poaching our animals, trespassing, and raping our fish runs. Who is going to answer your call when a trespasser with an AR-15 is on your property?  If you live in rural areas, who will answer your 911 call when the closest police is 45 minutes away?  Who will look for the neighbor’s kid that wandered off in the woods and it is now dark out?  I could go on and on but the stark reality is that if you covet your outdoor pursuits and as an extension your 2nd amendment rights, you need to contact your local representative and strongly voice your support for the DEC. Use language that if they support Hochul’s move to dismantle the DEC you will not vote for them.  Thank you. 🙏 

Edited April 20 by Gill-T

[Gator]

Any chance there's some way to corroborate? I can't find anything supportive online, and while I obviously appreciate what you're saying, it's tough to go in guns-a-blazing without solid premise. Thanks!

[Gill-T]

It will come to light in the coming days. I am sure Dan Ladd of the Outdoor News will be all over this. In light of how Cuomo passed the Safe Act in the middle of the night, people need to be tipped off early. 

Edited April 19 by Gill-T

[nasc620]

They Game Wardens are also in the same PBA as the Park Police,SUNY Cops, and Forest Ranges so none of us are getting it. But she can give 22 million for free AC units. 
 

https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/nys-program-providing-free-air-conditioning-units-for-certain-households-this-summer-home-energy-assistance-program-heap-new-york-medical-condition-heat-wave-seasons-hot-weather

[rolmops]

I just hope that this will not turn into another political poison post

[Gill-T]

Agreed 👍. This is a topic we all need to come together on. It would affect all of us. 

[HB2]

1 hour ago, rolmops said:

I just hope that this will not turn into another political poison post

I agree with you 100% 

 

I would hate to see the current administration of this state look any more anti constitutional than they already are ,if that is even possible . But they seem to push that envelope more each day . 

Edited April 19 by HB2

[spoonfed-1]

1 hour ago, rolmops said:

I just hope that this will not turn into another political poison post

Good response.

Edited April 19 by spoonfed-1

[Gill-T]

How to find your state assembly rep

 

https://nyassembly.gov/mem/search/

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/find-my-senator

 

 

…and this is the leader of the anti-hunting movement in NY.  
 

https://nyassembly.gov/mem/Deborah-J-Glick

 

 

please be respectful when engaging your reps or even Deb Glick. Your message will get lost if you act inappropriately. Thanks for participating. 

Edited April 19 by Gill-T

[fisherman777]

When you're referring to DEC, I'm assuming you're specifically meaning the environmental conservation officers (ECOs) and not the entire department of environmental conservation (DEC) as a whole, correct? Just for clarification for everybody that may be contacting their reps

[Gill-T]

Yes, ECO’s. Thanks for asking. Sorry for the confusion 

[Gill-T]

Update: negotiations have the ECO’s funded now in this year’s budget. Not funded are pensions at 20 years of service, no raises, no contract. 

[rolmops]

Is this a continuation of the disagreements about giving equal pay and benefits to different groups within the environmental law enforcement and park rangers that was happening a few years ago?

Edited April 20 by rolmops

[Gill-T]

I think there might be some of that involving benefits for SUNY police this time. 

[nasc620]

If you google the PBA of New York State there are all kinds of articles on the 20 year retirement for the PBA’s members.  In the past the retirement proposal has passed both the House and the Senate unanimously then goes to her desk and she vetos it saying it needs to be negotiated in the budget (which violates the Taylor Law).  This year it ends up in the House and Senate’s budget proposal but not hers and unfortunately doesn’t make the final budget cut.  Not to make political but in my eyes  she is not a supporter of Law enforcement.  She denies 20 retirement for a union with about 1200 members but finds all kinds of money for a new Bills stadium, housing for illegals, swimming pools across the state….ect….ect….

[Crestliner]

keep voting libtard !!!!!

[Gator]

4 minutes ago, Crestliner said:

keep voting libtard !!!!!

 Why does somebody always have to go there? Sigh.

 

I was talking to a young recruit this morning who seemed to know a bit about the subject, and my impression was that the 25 year retirement pension in effect now, as has been true for years, has retirement income pegged to the final three years of service, so there's good incentive to stay on.. Nevertheless, Gov. Hochul has continuously opposed a reduction to 20 years, which would make ecos equitable with other law enforcement, and the optics of this aren't great. It sounds like the cost to the state would be minimal, if 8 million dollars is minimal lol. But in the words of the person I was talking to, "I'm in at 22, out at 47, and I'm doing what I love". You have to respect that. 

 

 

[jperch]

NYS has for years been decreasing retirement benefits and health care benefits across the board for state employees.  And contract negotiations are often prolonged.  Our union does not have a pension system but a 401K plan.  Out health care plan costs have increased dramatically, especially for family plans.  Costs are going up, we all hate our NY taxes, I understand the state trying to control expenses.  But fair is fair, the DEC should have the same pension benefits as other police agency unions.

[HB2]

Being a self employed person all my life , I have made my own retirement .

If the economy of the country goes south , it greatly affects my retirement situation . 

  It seems that state or government employees have it better benefit / retirement wise as than most everyone else .Set for life . The retirement / benefit based on the last 3 years of employment seems a bit much ( for lack of a better word )to me . Teachers with seniority take on coaching or other position or other employees nearing retirement  work the overtime that is saved for them by others so when it's their turn they can do the same to up their dollars so they can get more in retirement . 

 Politicians court the union vote and give them these great benefits to get their endorsement . Basically buying their vote with taxpayers money . Like paying off school debt . 

 When the economy gets bad , taxpayers still have to fund these guaranteed benefits . 

  The population is living longer and the better  health care we get has gone through the roof  . And a huge portion of the population is retiring at the same time .  So taxpayers are paying way more for many years longer and it's only going to get worse. 

 

  Social security is broke and these pension funds are grossly underfunded . Wages are down . I  can't see taxing our way out of it . Especially when we are sending gazillions of dollars all over the world. Every person that moves  out of the state , and a lot are ,leaves the rest of us who stay footing the bill . 

 

     There sure looks like there  is a financial train wreck coming . 

[Gill-T]

Agree with what your concerns as a fellow taxpayer and anyone retired and on fixed income it is doubly a concern. I disagree with your view that wages have not gone up. Since COVID, there has been an uptick in wages. With the unemployment rate at historically low numbers, workers have more negotiating power on the open market where salary is concerned. The problem for government employees is that it is not an open market. Everything has to flow through unions and a budget process. A government employee does not have autonomy to shop around for the best offer. As such, government employees make less money than private sector. What keeps people in government positions is trading higher income for guaranteed benefits. Without those benefits, why work for less?  There is a crisis with people entering law enforcement. There are only about 200 ECO’s statewide when there is supposed to be 332. As a group, ECO’s are underpaid, underfunded, and morale is extremely low for the way they are being treated. 
 

 

[jperch]

Gill-T, I agree.  In the end the contracts that all the state unions receive are pretty similar when you look carefully at them.  I am about to retire after a 40+ year career as a state employee.  As I previously mentioned, no pension plan for our union.  I think that is the model that most private companies are moving to, away from pensions and toward 401K plans.  It relieves the state of long term responsibility but puts the burden on the individual to do long term planning for their retirement.  Another issue with state employees is that in the past overall job conditions were more attractive.  For example, school teachers (I am not one) were much more respected than they are now.  There is going to be a severe shortage of qualified teachers in NYS, especially in areas such as science and math.  My best bud is a supervisor for DOT.  He often tells me that he can not hire qualified people these days.  My advice for younger folks, and I know it's hard for those with families, is to try to make a plan to save early for retirement and keep to your plan.

 

[Gator]

Based on the pension numbers that I saw reported for NYS policemen, the average works out to ~$60K a year. That's average - so there must be a significant portion who make less than that. IMHO it would be tight living on a pension of that size, particularly if it's taxed and you have a family with kids getting toward college age. And I don't know how it adjusts for inflation...if you retire at 42, you hopefully have lots of living left. No wonder so many cops retire to second careers. 

 

All in all, and doubly-so given the current climate, I bet they earn every penny of that pension. 

[HB2]

Is that 60 k before the benefit package ? 

 

If a lot are making less than a lot are making more if that's the median . 

 

To pay for that retirement , 1 million dollars + would have to be invested to fully fund that at 6% return . Does the state have that ? We all know that answer . So who pays that 42 year old till he lives to 100 + the way life span gets older ? Sure he earned it but it needs to get paid for . Where does that money come from ? There are only so many rich people the state can shake down . And they are leaving in drpves and taking their state income tax bill with them . Which leaves it to the rest of us.  

Tom Gallisiono took 11.5 million to Fla. For just one . 

 

 

[GAMBLER]

5 hours ago, HB2 said:

Being a self employed person all my life , I have made my own retirement .

If the economy of the country goes south , it greatly affects my retirement situation . 

  It seems that state or government employees have it better benefit / retirement wise as than most everyone else .Set for life . The retirement / benefit based on the last 3 years of employment seems a bit much ( for lack of a better word )to me . Teachers with seniority take on coaching or other position or other employees nearing retirement  work the overtime that is saved for them by others so when it's their turn they can do the same to up their dollars so they can get more in retirement . 

 Politicians court the union vote and give them these great benefits to get their endorsement . Basically buying their vote with taxpayers money . Like paying off school debt . 

 When the economy gets bad , taxpayers still have to fund these guaranteed benefits . 

  The population is living longer and the better  health care we get has gone through the roof  . And a huge portion of the population is retiring at the same time .  So taxpayers are paying way more for many years longer and it's only going to get worse. 

 

  Social security is broke and these pension funds are grossly underfunded . Wages are down . I  can't see taxing our way out of it . Especially when we are sending gazillions of dollars all over the world. Every person that moves  out of the state , and a lot are ,leaves the rest of us who stay footing the bill . 

 

     There sure looks like there  is a financial train wreck coming . 

The older tiers of the state pension system have a good pension.  Tier 6 (the latest tier) is not good.  State agencies are having trouble hiring because people can work in the private sector and have a better retirement and pay now.  Tier 6 retirement is based on BASE salary only now.  If a state worker has 20K in OT their highest three year average it = ZERO extra dollars extra into their retirement.  They also have to pay into the pension system their entire career and work a lot longer.  Thank god I am in Tier 4!  

[jperch]

HB2, I will play devil's advocate here.  If, during say an average 25 year career, the state plus employee put 12% away invested and did not touch it, that pension would likely be covered for with average market conditions.  But there is risk, the money must be managed, and government has the desire to "borrow" funds during tough times.  As you say, now the bill must be paid and people are living longer, the population of NYS is not growing much if at all.  I think the pension system will eventually be replaced with the private company 401k model for new state employees.  And I don't think it's a bad thing really.