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Finders Keepers

Pro-Am Tournaments in 2013

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I think one reason that might be good for a Salmon only tournament in the East end is because if the Kings are a little light, most of the teams in the Pro Am come in and butcher the Browns.

On the east end many of the Charter Captains and rec fishermen rely on the Browns when the Salmon just don't seem to be there. Then the pro am comes through and hundreds of Browns are snatched out of the few honey holes we have.

If you have a multi species tourney, maybe you could limit it to max of 3 Browns?

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Is there or is there not a Pro-Am Committee? If so, who sits on this committee? If these person(s) were the least bit interested in seeing 1, some, or all of the tourneys being saved a reasonable person would think information with regard to next year would be disseminated and prospective competitors polled. It's becoming painfully clear a slow death of the Pro-Ams is in the offing........

While I'm at it where the he** is the old Challenge Cup? Maybe the new Pro Am should read "elimating the past AND the future......"

I understand this seems like a rant cuz it is. In a word, I'm frustrated. And, like Brian,off my soapbox......

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Glad to see everyone is providing their thoughts and comments. A lot of what is being discussed has been taken into consideration as to our planning and we will continue to monitor this sight throughout our planning for ideas, likes, dislikes, etc. In the near future we will be running some polls to see what the interest is on a few of our thoughts. Need to figure out how to run a multi poll page to keep it all together. Stay tuned

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The weekend of the 2012 A-TOM-MIK Invitational there was a Pro/Am meeting held which Dex attended

Dex really didn't have too much to say, I was sort of surprised, him and nick just sat there quietly?????

No personal strong heartfelt feelings submitted, no raised voices full of past passions, and no mention of facts as to why he felt there has been a noticeable decline in interest?

Still off the Soapbox Dex, or not taking my bait ??????

Dex ?????

Then again maybe I was drinking a bit too much goose?

Tom

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IF the pro/am committee truly wants to see things keep going i say let the east end go back to the old rules no comm pro and am division and see how things go. I bet by year three oswego would be respectable in numbers and sodus would be bigger than niagara.

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lets do a February Tournament lol I think its the only month we do not have covered yet....Im in!!

You know where we'll be in February!

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IF the pro/am committee truly wants to see things keep going i say let the east end go back to the old rules no comm pro and am division and see how things go. I bet by year three oswego would be respectable in numbers and sodus would be bigger than niagara.

Let's be honest....is there even a committee right now?

What would be wise is to take two Pro Captains and two Amateur Captains, maybe one of each from the West and East, to head up a revitalized Pro/Am Committee! If no one is moving forward on the current series, and we all want to fish this style of event, lets just do it!

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Well said Rich. To Rich AND Dex: no, as to what most people consider a committee, there is not. Several people that were asked to be on the committee last year put their best efforts forward and reluctantly compromised in several areas in an effort to "save" what was left of the series. When huge decisions were made(like scrapping the historic "Cup", paying down a ridiculous amount of places despite not hitting the target number of teams, letting teams communicate, turning 2 day events into 1 day events, and letting "Open" teams fish when the main division was left looking at a calm lake), there was no committee. Very few if any of the "committee members" were asked about any of this.

After digesting and enduring all of this, I came to the conclusion that local leaders need to build their own successful events, hopefully getting their local supporters and past players back in the game. If a series can then be brought back together, it would be great because all of the "legs" would be solid. Ultimately, the players will support what they want to and we can move forward.

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Since we are at a crossroads maybe it is time to form a formal committee structure. Elected at the events during captain's meetings. Representation for the am and pro divisions. I think if contestants know they have representation.....a voice to look out for their collective best interests it might go a long way. I know a lot of am contestants (myself included) who have offered their time to help with events and have been turned away. Get rejected enough.....and people stop asking. My guess is there are plenty of contestants willing to VOLUNTEER their time to help with the tournaments.......USE THEM. I would be willing to bet the contestants don't care about financial transparency of the tournaments......if that is the reason for the secrecy over the years. We just want a forum to fish in a FAIR tournament where we feel everyone has a FAIR shot to win our money back.

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Very few if any of the "committee members" were asked about any of this.

BINGO!!

The whole collapse of the Pro Am and the cup chase is very disappointing. There are quite a few people who sacraficed a lot to chase the cup. Then to take away the original cup? Seriously? So if and when the NHL starts to play again are they going to have a new cup and just scrap the old one? Some people may not care about history but I sure do.

No more will we watch strategy with team strengths decide the Best of the Best. Guys like Vince and Jerry chase each other down by fishing to there strengths wether it be Kings or Browns. Or watch Burkie figure out how he is going to average 184 pts per day to win the cup. (For those who never took the time to figure it out, that is how many points it took to win on average over the last 12 years.)

The only way we will see this come back to what it was is to have independently run tournaments with a common theme. I hope one day we can all look at a series that has the history of what was the Pro Am series. I am sure a county or two will still have a 12 fish 2 day tourney but with the current rules and structure in place it will be what it will be.

Brian

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IF the pro/am committee truly wants to see things keep going i say let the east end go back to the old rules no comm pro and am division and see how things go. I bet by year three oswego would be respectable in numbers and sodus would be bigger than niagara.

Let's be honest....is there even a committee right now?

What would be wise is to take two Pro Captains and two Amateur Captains, maybe one of each from the West and East, to head up a revitalized Pro/Am Committee! If no one is moving forward on the current series, and we all want to fish this style of event, lets just do it!

Are you volunteering Rick? :yes:

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IF the pro/am committee truly wants to see things keep going i say let the east end go back to the old rules no comm pro and am division and see how things go. I bet by year three oswego would be respectable in numbers and sodus would be bigger than niagara.

Let's be honest....is there even a committee right now?

What would be wise is to take two Pro Captains and two Amateur Captains, maybe one of each from the West and East, to head up a revitalized Pro/Am Committee! If no one is moving forward on the current series, and we all want to fish this style of event, lets just do it!

Are you volunteering Rick? :yes:

I don't have a problem helping! I help with the pen project in Rochester, I help with the WHI, so why not the Pro Ams! However, if they want to be narrow minded and not listen to the people or the committee members then whats the point?

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I don't have a problem helping! I help with the pen project in Rochester, I help with the WHI, so why not the Pro Ams! However, if they want to be narrow minded and not listen to the people or the committee members then whats the point?

I agree. However, "they" don't seem to exist anymore so...........

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We've been working diligently on our Sodus tournament and I'm sure everyone is going to like it :yes: Maybe by the first of the year we can unvail our plans and see how it goes. I'm hoping to put some polls out here real soon. I want to try and incorporate them on one topic page for ease of use for all. Details coming soon.

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Gill-T is absolutly right. I can not speak for all the AM's but to most it is not the prize money if it was we would not be speaking out about a $650 entrance fee. It is about the competition, the challenge and good old fun with a prize critieria that gives us a chance to get even. Some type of prize structure that pays 1 of every 3 entries cash + sponsors contribution gifts.

The AM division should be a training tool to compete in the Pro Field. Maybe we need our own set of rules, for example limit fishing to a certain grid,or only box a certain species, or an established mix (example 3 kings, 3 steelies, 2 browns and 1 laker) some type of combination.

There was talk at one time that the winning AM team would have to jump to the Pro division. Have a pay structure so the winning AM team would get a certificate that pays that teams entry in the following years Pro division for that county. The team may compete in the other 3 counties as an AM team. So, for every AM win that team would have to compete in that counties Pro division the next time they entered. This would be for the team and team members. Lets be clear if an AM team wins, lets say the Niagara County AM division, that team must fish the next Niagara Pro/Am in the Pro division. If a member of that team starts his/her own team or he/she joins another team that team must compete in the pro division.

I think that some changes may eliminate com in the amature division especially a mix box, it may also work in the pro division as well. Having to fish for a mix box will call for a variaty of programs and probably boat movement to locate a catch a full box, which makes the event a bit more competitive, maybe.

I also like the Friday - Saturday event with Sunday as the open day for foul weather as well as Saturday as the awards dinner. If the event ends on Sunday keep Saturday as the dinner and those who cash in if Sunday is the final day do as it was done in the past.

These are just my thoughts along with a few teams that I had the pleasure of talking with. I think that most all teams, pros and ams, want the event the way it was before. I also realize that something needs to be done to increase the entries in all counties but especially in Orleans and Oswego. Com is the top reason and it seems to be unatainable however just maybe some changes in rules to increase the tactical part of the event may help decrease com.

Last, I asked this question before and I got a mix of reasons but I will present it again. Both sets of Pro ams are only one week apart. Is there a way to spread the dates a little farther apart? I understand the traveling from one port to another and the charters but wgat impact does that have in changing a couple pf dates. I believe this would allow teams ,ore time to make the necessary arraingments to enter multiple counties. Maybe one a month. Just a thought!!!!

Shade

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First off, most of the guys I have fished with as team members really didn't care wether it was open or closed communication. I personally don't care. Either way is OK. What we do care about is having consistentcy. If we sign up for a tournament that allows open communication, then so be it. Same if it's closed communication. There seems to be a faction that wants closed communication and is blaming the demise of the pro-ams because of the lack of it.(open communication being the rule)

Now riddle me this. Why was it that when it was put to a vote as to wether or not to have open communication for the calcutta at Oak Orchard via a public vote initiated by Bob Songin, the majority of the calcutta participants voted for open communication? I'll repeat! The majority of active participants voted for Open communication.

Again, I'll personally go on the record that I don't care if it's open or closed as long as it's stated in the rules at the beginning of the tournament and adherred to. At one of the legs of the pro-am this year the calcutta was closed communication only. As it turned out we fished it along with about 14 other boats. If my memory serves me corectly, there were more boats not in the calcutta fishing against those of us that were in it.

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Teams spend a lot of money to get into these tournaments and when only about half of them get in the calcutta, they see it as why limit their team of all available resources when half the field is going to be able to talk to their buddy. Its not that most want open communication we just want a level playing field and the only way you can have that is by closing communication because some teams just have a wider communication pool than others.

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Just an FYI

Concerning the west end Pro/Ams I do not believe there to be a negotiable future committee calaboring so to say IMO

However there is some good news concerning the east end:

Talks have started on the east end concerning a continuance of the Oswego Pro/Am, just wanted to drop a note. I put in an initial plug about bringing back the east end Pro/Ams to where they were prior to unification Ie; A Pro and an Am division, Oswego is the topic for now. I had mentioned from input I have gathered I thought this would give a Pro/Am its best chance, its certainly what a majority seems to want

Tom

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I would hope that the old rules will be in effect. Troy Brown Trout is what keeps Sodus alive. We should look at what made them a success. Also there is alot of Strategy on weather to go for Trout or Salmon. What would you do if the Salmon dry up? Have 12 fish limits and boats come in with 2 or 3 fish? We have seen this before in 5 fish tournaments.

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