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I am not a tree hugger or PETA troll by any means. However, I would as well as many of you have the opportunity to harvest an animal of this stature.  I know these issues must be resolved but I thought the whole point of putting wolves into the park was to eliminate this culling approach.  It still looks as though human intervention is necessary.  I understand the why.  I am glad they are going to slaughter instead of a landfill, but, I think it would be better suited to allow some sportsman licenses where the state(s) could make some money and allow some hunting to cull the population.  All parties would make much more money than whatever they are getting per # live weight.  Look at how much money goes into this communtiies with non locals to hunt Elk.  Hurts me a little bit to see something that magnificient getting trapped like cattle. 

 

I know its complicated - Just saying.

 

Here is one of the stories...

 

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/officials-agree-to-slaughter-to-yellowstone-bison-this-winter/article_96bf9650-d569-5838-9507-64465364b9c5.html

 

 

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Wyoming does have a draw for Buffalo and they do hunt them outside of the park. As for the wolves they have decimated the Elk on the park. I'm sure once the elk are gone they will start on the Bison. They could make alot of hunters happy if they just issued more Bison tags and let them hunt the park.

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I am lucky enough to be able to hunt a cpl of western states every year and i will just say in my opinion in areas that i hunt that have wolf populations the elk population are WAY down. I have also been to Yellowstone a cpl of times in the last 6 years and i will tell you it is difficult to even see elk in the park where after a cpl days in the park you start to think there are nothing but bison in the park...there everywhere. TRUST me i hate to see the slaughter and wish there was a better way to allow ways for us to hunt them but that is never going to happin in the park & most of these animals have learned safty is in the park. Very few of them migrate out of the park. As long as there are elk and deer for the wolves there going to avoid trying to take down the bison, being in the large herds and so protective of there young and each other makes them MUCH harder for even the pack to take them down. So they are never going to be able to keep the bison herd in check. As a hunter i do believe wolves have there place...BUT... there are many places they have devistated the elk population! I hunt the famed Thorofare wilderness in Wyoming in one of the most remote place in the US on the SE corner of Yellowstone. The migration of elk out of the park through that area has been off by as much as 70% in the last 6-8 yrs. On last two trips in there we actually saw more wolves than elk...not good. Dont let anyone tell you any different ther are many more wolves in areas that have them they they will ever tell you...you can see it for yourself if you hunt, fish or backpack in these areas. When you see a pack of 8-10 wolves hunting in a pack it is impressive and you can see just how deady they are at the same time!

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As for the wolves they have decimated the Elk on the park.

 

 

BS dont believe the hype from anti wolf ranchers 

 

The park this thriving now that the elk population is under control

 

 

And I have no clue what the poster above is talking about, I go to yellowstone every year and it is NOT difficult to see elk.

 

The reason you see less elk is because without the wolves there they overpopulated causing loss of habitat for animals such as beaver who crate valuable wetlands within the park.

Edited by bandrus1
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BS dont believe the hype from anti wolf ranchers

The park this thriving now that the elk population is under control

And I have no clue what the poster above is talking about, I go to yellowstone every year and it is NOT difficult to see elk.

The reason you see less elk is because without the wolves there they overpopulated causing loss of habitat for animals such as beaver who crate valuable wetlands within the park.

Ha Ok. Like the above poster said go hunt Elk with some of the outfitters around the park or call a few and see how the Elk herd is crap in wolf areas. Or visit the park and listen to the LIB wolf lovers and see how great they are. Look at BC up in Canada wolf numbers are so high they are crushing the Moose population.

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I was in Montana last year and met a ranch owner that has thousands of black Angus and runs a guide business for elk, deer. He said the wolves don't kill the elk to eat they wear the whole herd down by not letting them ruminate. Thus killing most of the herd. The guy was struggling to make a living and busted his butt as a rancher. I think I would be a bit upset if wolves were introduced on my ranch and I had no way to keep them in check. He pays a huge tax bill on his land but our controlling government stops him from managing it. Oh yea he loses a bunch of calves each year too..

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I'm not starting a pissing match. You will take environmental advise from someone at the park who shows you time line pictures of how the willows and plant life has come back since the Elk numbers have been cut. Sure that is good for the beaver and other critters. Part they dont mention is what controls the wolf population? What do they stop reproducing and say let's eat more Elk. One wolf eats an average of 22 Elk per year, and that's if he doesn't lose any of it to other animals like bears, birds, and coyotes. Then with that they need more kills. Guys don't spend and pump millions of dollars a year into the Western economy to go after wolf. I have no problem with them but I don't think they planned on the wolf's being as successful as they have been.

Edited by Hookedup
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 Guys don't spend and pump millions of dollars a year into the Western economy 

 

 

That is all this boils down to... Its not about the health of the environment in that area its about $ 

 

I dont see all these people complaining about man made obstacles that cut off natural migration patters of elk but man dem dar wolves is evil

Edited by bandrus1
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It is a PROVEN FACT that the elk herds in and around all areas that have large wolf packs are at or near all time lows. I have been a life member of the rocky mountain elk foundation for almost 20 yrs...look it up they have all the #s anyone could ever ask for in terms of facts...good or bad about Elk and wolf #s. The elk numbers in the park years ago were at all times high and even too high, so YES the habitat has come back now that are fewer Elk. anyone who spends any time there hiking or getting off the beaten path by getting out of there cars & hiking or camping in Yellowstone will Prove the point that there are not nearly the # of deer or elk in the park that should be or that the habitat can sustain. can you see elk in the park? yes but, when I say difficult to see they are compared to what it use to be or what it should be!  Most ANY outfitter or hunter in the western states does NOT want to see "10 billion" elk running around most of them just want to see a substaniable  healthy herd..in areas of HIGH wolf #s they do not have that. I have seen 1st hand how the wolves and the Grizzlies will now actually come to the sounds of gunshots because the know it may be a free meal! anyone who hunts the west where these animals are can tell you that .  as stated in a previous post it is not just the Elk they actually take down it is how they are always around the herds and the stress they put on them...especially during calving. many more elk now "abort" there calves and has been PROVEN it is do to the High stress levels caused by wolf packs.  as I said before I DO believe we need  wolves in the wild to help keep things in check...but until we start keeping them in check the elk/ deer herds are going to continue to decline. as far as "about the $$" do you think the towns of pulaski or oswego would even exsist if the introduced a predator that came in and wiped out 70% of the salmon we chase?...I think not. Hunters do the same in the western states and keeps those business and family going. When hunters book trips with outfitters now One of the big questions is "do you have wolves" when the answer is yes many hunters move on to the next area!

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It is a PROVEN FACT that the elk herds in and around all areas that have large wolf packs are at or near all time lows. I have been a life member of the rocky mountain elk foundation for almost 20 yrs...look it up they have all the #s anyone could ever ask for in terms of facts...good or bad about Elk and wolf #s. The elk numbers in the park years ago were at all times high and even too high, so YES the habitat has come back now that are fewer Elk. anyone who spends any time there hiking or getting off the beaten path by getting out of there cars & hiking or camping in Yellowstone will Prove the point that there are not nearly the # of deer or elk in the park that should be or that the habitat can sustain. can you see elk in the park? yes but, when I say difficult to see they are compared to what it use to be or what it should be! Most ANY outfitter or hunter in the western states does NOT want to see "10 billion" elk running around most of them just want to see a substaniable healthy herd..in areas of HIGH wolf #s they do not have that. I have seen 1st hand how the wolves and the Grizzlies will now actually come to the sounds of gunshots because the know it may be a free meal! anyone who hunts the west where these animals are can tell you that . as stated in a previous post it is not just the Elk they actually take down it is how they are always around the herds and the stress they put on them...especially during calving. many more elk now "abort" there calves and has been PROVEN it is do to the High stress levels caused by wolf packs. as I said before I DO believe we need wolves in the wild to help keep things in check...but until we start keeping them in check the elk/ deer herds are going to continue to decline. as far as "about the $$" do you think the towns of pulaski or oswego would even exsist if the introduced a predator that came in and wiped out 70% of the salmon we chase?...I think not. Hunters do the same in the western states and keeps those business and family going. When hunters book trips with outfitters now One of the big questions is "do you have wolves" when the answer is yes many hunters move on to the next area!

Exactly my point. Outfitters now post when they dont have wolfs to help sell Hunts. I know I've booked in areas without them for that reason. Like you said with the bears, I lost an Elk in BC due to a moma grizz and her two cubs after they came to the gunshot. They get smart when they know they can't be shot.

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I didn't know this was so polarizing. 

 

Everything needs balance...

 

I have not been there so I find the opinions conflicting.  I don't blame the wolves or the ranchers for anything.  I point my finger directly at the humans governing this debacle.  We mettled in everything for centuries and a few do gooders/well wishers think it is as simple as one thing or another and never realize that it is not a tight rope but a net.  What do I mean?  You pull a string and you move something towards  you.  You pull a net and and it contorts unevenly in a plane. 

 

Logic tells me that all is not well within the park if that many bison are going to be slaughtered.  So regardless of what the elk, wolves, grizzlies or the ranchers are doing, the park is not ok.  I find that part sad.  I do not know enough about the rest to comment.  I will leave that to those of you that know more or believe you know more about it.

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As humans think we can control and manage everything, but in reality everything is cyclical and nature is cruel when things get out of balance. We kill too many wolves so we have to reintroduce them...then we kill no wolves till they wipe out something man decides we need then we will drastically reduce the wolves. Its a vicious cycle of over reactions. Management and conservation involve moderation....not total protection or extermination. Seems obvious that the wolves will need some predation at some point just like it was obvious the elk needed predation before the wolf was reintroduced. If the wolf is unchecked eventually there wont be wolves or elk in the park....

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The people I know from NW Montana are hunters, miners, and National Forest Service employees, and they strongly dislike wolves.... This area is outside of the financial influence of Yellowstone. I've been hunting there since 1991..... In the winter of '96-'97 they lost a large percentage of their deer and elk herd to a very nasty winter. Like 60% of the deer and 40% of the elk...... but over the next few years the game populations recovered. I don't remember the year the wolves started showing up, but it's been at least 10 years that they have had wolf predation in the area..... the game population has not recovered, and other predators are being affected too...... fewer cougars, fewer grizzlies (not a bad thing :) ), fewer black bears..... prey species of course have been affected..... deer, elk, moose, sheep, goats.....

 

You can say what you want about the health of the aspen and beavers in the park (Yellowstone), but outside of the park, wolves have had a very negative impact from many peoples perspective. Not just outfitters. Not just ranchers ....... Those rural mountain communities rely on tourism dollars, and hunters provide income not just for outfitters, but lodgers, restaurants, gas stations, many ancillary businesses...... It's a fair bet that 90% of the locals outside of the park "environment" strongly dislike wolves...... and Democrats :lol:   

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Also having hunted the NW Montana area several times its unarguable the impact that the wolves have had on the deer and elk populations. Even from the first time I went, 2007, through the last, 2013, the impact was very noticeable. The pictures from the early 90s when my dad and uncle started hunting up there show an even more drastic impact. In 2005 or so my uncle took an undeniable picture of a wolf on the side of the road and FWP denied it flat out. In 2009 when I was there FWP was going to thin out a pack that a sheep farmer was knowingly having trouble with, they stated that they knew there was 19 wolves in that pack. The first night they killed 23 and there was 15 more in the field the next night. Montana used to be a tough state to get a tag in with the lottery system for non residents, now they don't even sell out of tags. If that doesn't show a problem then I don't know what does. There's more to the state than just the park and the wolves have caused a huge financial impact to businesses throughout.

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