Another outdoor decision by Washington

[Gator]

2 hours ago, woody 184 said:

Still Awaiting your facts to back up Running your mouth 

Woody, I'm not sure why you seem to have so much trouble with me...I have no clue who you are...but just to be perfectly clear, my comments about statistics are well known jokes. Copy-paste and Google them to confirm. They aren't offensive in any way, shape or form, and certainly weren't directed at any individual. I really have no idea what you are taking about "running your mouth". 

 

So as far as I'm concerned, we don't have a problem. 

 

Now, if you start disparaging my Quarter Pounder dreams that might be different and we will have an issue! Just kidding, Maybe.

[Gill-T]

Ya, if you have to explain your jokes usually they don’t have the desired effect. Your dropping a loaf after a morning coffee has more resonance 

[GAMBLER]

11 hours ago, Gator said:

Woody, I'm not sure why you seem to have so much trouble with me...I have no clue who you are...but just to be perfectly clear, my comments about statistics are well known jokes. Copy-paste and Google them to confirm. They aren't offensive in any way, shape or form, and certainly weren't directed at any individual. I really have no idea what you are taking about "running your mouth". 

 

So as far as I'm concerned, we don't have a problem. 

 

Now, if you start disparaging my Quarter Pounder dreams that might be different and we will have an issue! Just kidding, Maybe.

Your quarter pounder dreams during deer season ended up as a nightmare.  Tell that story!   

[GAMBLER]

In all seriousness, the childish digs and name calling (sheep, libtards, ect) are not necessary.   We are all better than this.  There is nothing wrong with an adult debate.  Please keep it civil. 

[LongLine]

Well not from WH but from Albany that might help a little for electric bills::

 

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/new-york-mulls-moratorium-on-new-data-centers/

 

State proposal for a 3 yr moratorium on new data centers in NY (these support AI, require a lot of electricity and new infrastructure that we'd have to pay for.) 
 

[woody 184]

On 2/7/2026 at 7:57 AM, Gator said:

I love a great discussion, particularly involving statistics (there's lies, damn lies, and statistics lol).

 

But this train got derailed somewhere. Imma finish me morning coffee and deposit a loaf of my own....the price of which has been the same for 58 years. 

 

And then maybe I'll think about outdoor decisions. Meliora, my brothers.

 

  So for Clarity I defended the Conservative side of the equation but now  I’m the one who for some reason I had Zero Immature digs, Never called anyone a Libtard I said a Libber…. Gator said quote lies,lies,lies

[woody 184]

  So rolmops said Mr.Gator would bury me in Facts, Still waiting for the pile of facts, I said Mr.Gator, where’s the childish digs..

[woody 184]

Mr.Gator if you think your Funny in this forum I’m not seeing funny I’m seeing Slamming a Conservative view… I had the utmost respect for a honest conversation on this got Slammed for things I never said..

[woody 184]

   Maybe the moderators should shut this forum down, unless Mr.gator can apply facts to this thread. 
 

  Or are we excepting Mr.gator comments as full truth 

[woody 184]

  Or the Junior Senator from Wisconsin would tell me we aren’t accepting the Junior Senators comments as truth…  

[rolmops]

15 hours ago, HB2 said:

The numbers and statistics may not lie but theycan be interpreted differently by different people . And those interpretations may be  manipulated to set policy for someone's agenda . 

That is less than half the story. Very often statistics are created with misleading information.

A classic one is the styrofoam statistic. One can make the point that styrofoam does not add much to a landfill because it does not weigh very much. It is very easy to make a statistic proving that fact. The volume of the styrofoam is never mentioned.

 

[HB2]

DEC does bait survey . Some guys on here doubt it . It's science , why would you not believe it ? 

 

Poll say this candidate will win and they don't . What happened ?  

 

We were told science said to take the Jab , shut everything down , etc ,etc . Turned out they were wrong . 

 

A lot of this data is wrong or incomplete or interpreted wrong  or used to create policy or justify an agenda . 

 

48 minutes ago, rolmops said:

That is less than half the story. Very often statistics are created with misleading information.

A classic one is the styrofoam statistic. One can make the point that styrofoam does not add much to a landfill because it does not weigh very much. It is very easy to make a statistic proving that fact. The volume of the styrofoam is never mentioned.

 

 

So thank you for making my point for me . 

 

And I doubt electric rates go down anytime soon . But I could be wrong . I'll wait and see .  

Edited February 9 by HB2

[LongLine]

Mr. W: Someone once told me that "I can read it for you, but I can't understand it for you."  Another told me that the problem with the written word is that with some you can't really decern emotion behind it.  

 

Quite a few so called "conservatives" and quite a few so called "liberals" constructively contribute to this site regularly.  Our common ground is love of the outdoors.  We try very hard to defend positions in a constructive manner.  (most of the time) Some replies are obviously humorous, and some exhibit a very "dry" humor. Some have the world's worst grammar, and some are don't know what a paragraph is. Some quote sources and others are personal opinions. Destructive or personal attacks are uncalled for. 

HB - The "Science" events you refer to were/are all expressed as probabilities.  High probability doesn't mean it will always happen just as low probabilities doesn't mean it will never happen.  Rolmops' point is that they didn't consider calculation by weight.  They also didn't consider whether the material was wetted with a chemical nor crushed flat.

 

Previous alewife surveys assumed alewives were equally distributed throughout the lake. Recent surveys proved that assumption wrong.  Perhaps in a few years another factor will be included in the survey. The problem with being human is being human.  I wish I could think of everything beforehand and not as an afterthought, but then I wouldn't be human. 
 

[Gator]

2 hours ago, HB2 said:

DEC does bait survey . Some guys on here doubt it . It's science , why would you not believe it ? 

 

Poll say this candidate will win and they don't . What happened ?  

 

We were told science said to take the Jab , shut everything down , etc ,etc . Turned out they were wrong . 

 

A lot of this data is wrong or incomplete or interpreted wrong  or used to create policy or justify an agenda . 

 

 

So thank you for making my point for me . 

 

And I doubt electric rates go down anytime soon . But I could be wrong . I'll wait and see .  

 

Exactly!!! I think the both of you are making the same very good point. Statistics don't tell the whole story and they can be manipulated to support an agenda as easily as not. Science, like everything else, has both good and bad actors. There's good science supported by a preponderance of evidence and bad science that's not. There are predatory journals that will publish virtually anything for a dollar. And then we have pre-publication servers like BioRxiv that folks cite as if it's peer reviewed; it's not vetted yet and shouldn't be treated as the gold standard in the field. 

 

All of this goes to support why I LOVE skepticism. I wish more people were skeptical, followed the data, thought deeply, and measured their response according to the rigor of the premise supporting their conclusions.  There's a central scientific principle regarding the impossibility of knowing absolute, final truth which dictates that scientific ideas can never be proven "true" with 100% certainty; they can only be supported or falsified. 

 

Nevertheless, we do need to believe in something, or we'll never advance. Hence, we judge the reliability of the information supporting our arguments.

 

Like the Last Knight said to Indiana Jones: "Choose wisely".

 

And if anyone wonders where the lies, damn lies, and statistics quote came from, it wasn't a scientist. It was Mark Twain!

[HB2]

1 hour ago, LongLine said:

Mr. W: Someone once told me that "I can read it for you, but I can't understand it for you."  Another told me that the problem with the written word is that with some you can't really decern emotion behind it.  

 

Quite a few so called "conservatives" and quite a few so called "liberals" constructively contribute to this site regularly.  Our common ground is love of the outdoors.  We try very hard to defend positions in a constructive manner.  (most of the time) Some replies are obviously humorous, and some exhibit a very "dry" humor. Some have the world's worst grammar, and some are don't know what a paragraph is. Some quote sources and others are personal opinions. Destructive or personal attacks are uncalled for. 

HB - The "Science" events you refer to were/are all expressed as probabilities.  High probability doesn't mean it will always happen just as low probabilities doesn't mean it will never happen.  Rolmops' point is that they didn't consider calculation by weight.  They also didn't consider whether the material was wetted with a chemical nor crushed flat.

 

Previous alewife surveys assumed alewives were equally distributed throughout the lake. Recent surveys proved that assumption wrong.  Perhaps in a few years another factor will be included in the survey. The problem with being human is being human.  I wish I could think of everything beforehand and not as an afterthought, but then I wouldn't be human. 
 

 

20 minutes ago, Gator said:

 

Exactly!!! I think the both of you are making the same very good point. Statistics don't tell the whole story and they can be manipulated to support an agenda as easily as not. Science, like everything else, has both good and bad actors. There's good science supported by a preponderance of evidence and bad science that's not. There are predatory journals that will publish virtually anything for a dollar. And then we have pre-publication servers like BioRxiv that folks cite as if it's peer reviewed; it's not vetted yet and shouldn't be treated as the gold standard in the field. 

 

All of this goes to support why I LOVE skepticism. I wish more people were skeptical, followed the data, thought deeply, and measured their response according to the rigor of the premise supporting their conclusions.  There's a central scientific principle regarding the impossibility of knowing absolute, final truth which dictates that scientific ideas can never be proven "true" with 100% certainty; they can only be supported or falsified. 

 

Nevertheless, we do need to believe in something, or we'll never advance. Hence, we judge the reliability of the information supporting our arguments.

 

Like the Last Knight said to Indiana Jones: "Choose wisely".

 

And if anyone wonders where the lies, damn lies, and statistics quote came from, it wasn't a scientist. It was Mark Twain!

 

So once again , respectfully , thank you for making my point . 

If everything you are saying is true , which I believe it is , how can you believe the so called facts , results are true ? As we have seen with our own eyes more than once , we can't . So we have to be skeptical. 

[LongLine]

I didn't prove your point, you proved my point!   (ha, ha, ha...just kidding... just joking)

 

I believe being skeptical is good. Corroborations, sources and questions are very important.  Truth can be a very subjective term depending on how or to what it is applied. Two witnesses to an event often report differing accounts of that event so one should ask what a 3rd, 4th and even 5th witness say occurred.  
 

Back to the topic of WH decisions but along in the same line:

 

WH house announces beef imports from Argentina to drive ground beef price down:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2026/02/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-ensures-affordable-beef-for-the-american-consumer/
Cool!  Burger prices are going down!

 

What the beef farmers say?

https://farmpolicynews.illinois.edu/2026/02/u-s-to-quadruple-beef-imports-from-argentina/
Oops, disease may be a problem?  Poor quality? Additional inspections required?

 

What did a news analyst say?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-beef-trade-argentina-executive-order/
Won't hurt but only a drop in the bucket so prices won't go down. 

 

COME ON SPRING!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gator]

20 hours ago, HB2 said:

 

 

So once again , respectfully , thank you for making my point . 

If everything you are saying is true , which I believe it is , how can you believe the so called facts , results are true ? As we have seen with our own eyes more than once , we can't . So we have to be skeptical. 

Yep. You can't rely on blind trust But we can't disbelieve everything, right? So we apply standards to assess the information's credibility.

 

I love the "Ingredients List" Analogy, also known as "The CRAAP Test"

 

Just as you look at the ingredients list, nutrition facts, and expiration date to decide if a food item is healthy, you should examine a source’s CRAAP factors: 

 

Currency (Expiration Date): Is the information up-to-date, or has it expired?

Relevance (Nutritional Value): Does it directly answer your question, or is it just filler?

Authority (Manufacturer): Who created this? Are they an expert?

Accuracy (Ingredients): Is it supported by evidence, or is it fake?

Purpose (Marketing): Is it trying to inform, sell, or persuade? 

[Gill-T]

Well craap, that throws out 90% of the conversations on this site. Everyone knows fishermen tell stories and live by anecdotal evidence. 

[LongLine]

The score:

1/4 pounder 1 - (food Gator likes)

Whopper 3 - (food LL likes, fish LL catches, fish stories by Gill-T)

 

 (joke...just kidding...hah, ha, ha)

 

The CRAAP test is a good one.

 

(Can you believe this thread has 17,600 views?)

 

COME ON SPRING!

[Gator]

13 hours ago, Gill-T said:

Well craap, that throws out 90% of the conversations on this site. Everyone knows fishermen tell stories and live by anecdotal evidence. 

One of my buddies asked me if I wanted to go fishing "yesterday", because yesterday is the only time anyone seems to catch fish.

 

[LongLine]

Is that a fact? .....

 

[Gill-T]

Come on guys keep the bobsled in the lane of what the original thread was about -Government oversight and decisions that affect outdoor activities/ access. 

[L&M]

1 hour ago, Gill-T said:

Come on guys keep the bobsled in the lane of what the original thread was about -Government oversight and decisions that affect outdoor activities/ access. 

 

 

[LongLine]

https://apnews.com/article/trump-climate-change-epa-clean-air-act-c149d5ea6ec71c862e6c4b578adf92cd

Does this mean potential for more or larger harmful algae blooms?   

https://www.epa.gov/habs/climate-change-and-freshwater-harmful-algal-blooms

[fisherdude]

On 2/12/2026 at 8:17 PM, LongLine said:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-climate-change-epa-clean-air-act-c149d5ea6ec71c862e6c4b578adf92cd

Does this mean potential for more or larger harmful algae blooms?   

https://www.epa.gov/habs/climate-change-and-freshwater-harmful-algal-blooms

Dose this mean I have the freedom to buy a gas powered truck with no grovment mandates by  2030 ?????