Rochester fishing

[brucehookedup]

So i have been fishing out of Rochester since 1977 and i started Hookupcharters in 1984. The fall return for our salmon this year as the years past has been nothing short of dismal. Granted we raise 150k every year and then whatever the state gives us.? So why is it other ports , even with the low water are having a good bite?? I know of some ports that don't get stocked and are doing well, i know they are not naturals. What i am trying to say is since they cut the Caledonia hatchery out of the program for the central basin be it browns,( which disappeared for most of the summer for the first time i could remember) or Kings. That water system in part of the whole central lake which is the mighty Genesee. The pier fisherman and the local fisherman are all seeing the dismal results as well. We have argued with the DEC to get Caledonia up to where it used to be, with what was in it. We will all be a lot better with our consistent catches, be it on the pier, in the river, or in a boat. We NEED to make this happen. Very disappointed in our fishery here from what it was and there in no sensible or reasonable answer. I am stating mine and many others that will not write. Let's do something better!!!!

[GAMBLER]

I agree about Caledonia.  I heard there was best in years casting off the piers in early September and garbage the last week or so.  We had a lot of East winds and cooler lake temps at the pier heads in that period.  Lots of stable weather and piss warm water around the piers lately isn't helping.  We all know Caledonia is a pipe dream.  The DEC has pushed us West end guys off on this topic for over a decade now.  Someday common sense might prevail, and we can change their minds.  I'm not holding my breath.  

[Gill-T]

We shall see what the runs up the salmon show. It sounds like a wad of fish showed up in Mexico finally. Hopefully we get some rain and soon. I am more concerned that fish have been absent at the same time there was a substantial fish kill this spring . Not sure if any testing for VHS was conducted by fisheries.  Disease doesn’t care which hatchery you came from. 

[ifishy]

Salmon are managed for the lake not the rivers so low runs in the west are not the driver also the west end typically has more kings all spring and much of the summer so complaining that you dont have the best of the lake every single day doesn't hold a lot of weight I have also seen reports of excellent fishing offshore in the rochester basin all summer meaning that managing kings for the lake is working. As far as Caledonia the risk of disease from lake o is the driver believe it or not the dec has to manage more than just lake o and Caledonia plays a role for those other waters they have to look at the bigger picture and they do

[GAMBLER]

29 minutes ago, ifishy said:

Salmon are managed for the lake not the rivers so low runs in the west are not the driver also the west end typically has more kings all spring and much of the summer so complaining that you dont have the best of the lake every single day doesn't hold a lot of weight I have also seen reports of excellent fishing offshore in the rochester basin all summer meaning that managing kings for the lake is working. As far as Caledonia the risk of disease from lake o is the driver believe it or not the dec has to manage more than just lake o and Caledonia plays a role for those other waters they have to look at the bigger picture and they do

The fishing Bruce is talking about is lake fishing.  The dismal returns on 150,000 kings stocked is an issue.  All the work for pen rearing and nothing to show for it.  The offshore kings all summer are kings stocked all over the lake.  That has nothing to do with returns to the Genesee. 

[HB2]

The kings are managed for the lake . What does that mean ? 

They pen rear them at destination  ports they want  them to return to so the business at those ports thrive . I was told that more than once and as late as Tues afternoon from the guys on the shocking boat . 

 

Also , I think that there  is more natural  reproduction from the Canadian side than most people know . Which is why we have good lake fishing and not great returns . It was as good as it gets last year with a decent return, not great ,  at my port 

[Duddytri1]

I agree is has been very disappointing.   I hope the DEC isn't thinking lakers will be better for Rochester.   

 

[ifishy]

Managed for the lake means the goal of king stocking is for the open lake fishery not tributaries. I understand you are fishing in the lake but are targeting mature fish returning to a tributary to spawn so it is directly a result of the goals of the dec  pen stocking is about higher survival which the studies showed it is not about higher spawning returns which the studies were not conclusive on the fact that the open water fish are from multiple stocking sites just reinforces that they are meeting the goals they set out to achieve. It is also a fallacy that all lake o fish return to there spawning site there is a very significant amount of straying as was shown during the last tagging studies. They manage steelhead as the primary base of tributary fishing they stay there longer and offer more angling opportunities so it makes sense and everyone complains and rightly so about snagging and other crap that happens in the tribs so limiting the number of places with big runs could reduce that (dont know if its helped)

[HB2]

These fish are in both sides he lake and tribs at some time . So what are they doing  differently to manage kings for lake and trout for creeks ? Only thing I saw was the size limits for steelhead . 

 

I was told by DEC  personel that they concentrated the kings to destination ports .. it's a business decision. 

 

When they first started stocking kings way back when , they didn't pen rear .They pulled up the truck and dumped them in .  And there were way more fish , everywhere . They only started pen rearing when they stopped raising kings at Caledonia . 

[GAMBLER]

13 hours ago, ifishy said:

Managed for the lake means the goal of king stocking is for the open lake fishery not tributaries. I understand you are fishing in the lake but are targeting mature fish returning to a tributary to spawn so it is directly a result of the goals of the dec  pen stocking is about higher survival which the studies showed it is not about higher spawning returns which the studies were not conclusive on the fact that the open water fish are from multiple stocking sites just reinforces that they are meeting the goals they set out to achieve. It is also a fallacy that all lake o fish return to there spawning site there is a very significant amount of straying as was shown during the last tagging studies. They manage steelhead as the primary base of tributary fishing they stay there longer and offer more angling opportunities so it makes sense and everyone complains and rightly so about snagging and other crap that happens in the tribs so limiting the number of places with big runs could reduce that (dont know if its helped)

Staging king fishing is still lake fishing.  The Lake fishery should not end in mid August......  When kings do not return to the Genny to spawn, it leaves a void in the fishery for the captains and rec guys starting in late August.  For a month and a half of lake fishing, we do not have the returns to the Genny to support the OPEN LAKE FISHERY.  No kings = pressure on the trout.  Trout populations will get beat up in no time when everyone has to target them to survive. Not a great way to manage the fishery for everyone.  So screw the Genny guys because the kings are managed for the lake?  The Genny gets 150,000 kings stocked and dismal returns.  Like HB2 said, we used to direct stock and get better returns to the Genny.  They limited the ports to busy ports to put the fish where the fishermen are and stocking in bigger numbers increases survival rate.  The Genny is one of those.  It shouldn't have dismal returns when a large portion of king stocking happens at this port.  

[rolmops]

Claiming that the Caledonia hatchery will do the trick does not offer a solution. It brings the chance of a nasty virus returning right back at our doorstep.

It may be time to move the pens upstream to the area where "Spirit Of Rochester" is slowly rotting away. There are docks there. That might give the smolting fingerlings more exposure to the Genny's unique makeup. With just a little bit more current and without the influence of eastern and northern winds that push lake water into the pen area and dilute the Genny "taste", things might look different. This would also neutralize the influence of all the nasty chemicals that were exposed when the new marina was dug on the west side.

This just a suggestion based on trying to point out things that may have changed or might be changed. If it was just a matter of all other things being equal, you might have a point. But not all other things are equal.

Edited September 19, 2025 by rolmops

[GAMBLER]

1 hour ago, rolmops said:

Claiming that the Caledonia hatchery will do the trick does not offer a solution. It brings the chance of a nasty virus returning right back at our doorstep.

It may be time to move the pens upstream to the area where "Spirit Of Rochester" is slowly rotting away. There are docks there. That might give the smolting fingerlings more exposure to the Genny's unique makeup. With just a little bit more current and without the influence of eastern and northern winds that push lake water into the pen area and dilute the Genny "taste", things might look different. This would also neutralize the influence of all the nasty chemicals that were exposed when the new marina was dug on the west side.

This just a suggestion based on trying to point out things that may have changed or might be changed. If it was just a matter of all other things being equal, you might have a point. But not all other things are equal.

Pen rearing has been proven to increase survival and not much for returns.  The smolts are imprinted on the Salmon River already when they are delivered to the pens.  Moving the pens will not change a thing for return rates.  There are steps they can take in the hatchery to prevent VHS disease from spreading.  

[fisherman21]

The kings still return to the genny. I got a real beauty this morning! 😂

[HB2]

2 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

Pen rearing has been proven to increase survival and not much for returns.  The smolts are imprinted on the Salmon River already when they are delivered to the pens.  Moving the pens will not change a thing for return rates.  There are steps they can take in the hatchery to prevent VHS disease from spreading.  

 I disagree with that statement that pen rearing does nothing for return rates . I have witnessed this first hand at Sandy . The return rates have dropped significantly and directly coinside with the stop of pen rearing 3 years prior . Enough of the fish , not all , imprint on the stream they are penned at , IMO.The Oak for example, has a great amount staging this year . Why is that ? Because of increased pen rearing . Sandy , not so much  as years prior . And believe me , I put my time in.  There are some , but not the numbers after we stopped with the pens 

 

The reason they started pen rearing was because they stopped raising kings at Caledonia. And other ports / streams were not getting the returns they once were . That's the fact . Over time they found out that survival rates were better with pen rearing . 

 

I feel this kings for the lake and steelhead for the creek management thing is a bunch of crap to appease some . 

Sounds good but in reality does nothing . 

 

And if pen rearing does nothing for returns , why do it at major ports with economic interests ? Just do the pens at one location , like the Niagara where there is good flow . Why don't they do that ? Because it works . 

 

 

[Silver Fox]

In shore king fishing (less than 200’ish) for Aug and Sept has primarily been way down since the stoppage of raising kings in Caledonia. 75% of the boats don’t, shouldn’t or can’t get way offshore for the kings in this time frame and in turn keeps participation well below of what it used to be. I’ve seen it well before 3 years ago when the DEC terminated the King pens at Sandy. I’ve  fished Sandy for 40 years and have seen incredible salmon fishing those 2 months and it’s a Damm shame that it’s gone. 
Maybe someone can enlighten me if there was a virus or just the risk of a virus back when they closed it? I honestly don’t remember. 

[ifishy]

And and all hatcheries run constant risk of disease lake o gets exposed to a lot more than many smaller inland lakes vhs is the one that gets headlines it is not the only one. Managing for the lake means they stopped direct stocking every where and just some in each region they do as many as possible in pens for survival the do pens at large ports that can accommodate them if they did it all in one spot than there would be risk of losing a whole year class if something bad happened it also spreads out the risk of predation. Like it or not staging kings are tied to spawning runs so yeah its tied management strategy. If your not happy with fishing stages there are other fish out there that are not staging to say that all matures are staging by mid August is a straight up lie. There also seems to be a tendency to ignore weather patterns we had to warm water around the genny and it was stable that is preventative to big runs as far as what things were 20 years ago well so what its not the same lake and it keeps changing saying it was that way than so it should be that way now is the same thought process that says it used to be atlantics so it should be again the science behind many of the decisions the dec makes is sound.just because fishing isn't always easy doesn't mean its a conspiracy against you

[fisherman21]

I have fished the Rochester piers over the last 20 years, with the last 8 being very invested. I will say that the fishing off the piers this year has been the same as any other. I averaged about 40 kings a season casting, with my best year being 57. I am on pace this season to do better than my average. Like ifishy said, this past week with stable weather and warm water temps around the piers…..well that never makes for great stager fishing around the mouth. This is the week the boats have been hitting it hard out front…..and with little luck. The bite has been trash since last Friday, although I still did get a few this week. Early last week when the bite was on fire, almost all the captains were driving right over them to go fish offshore 🤷🏼‍♂️.

 

As for Sandy, I have watched that fishery digress in king numbers the last few season. I can’t really speak to Caledonia, as I’m not informed about that situation. 
 

However, I will say we still have some good fishing to look forward to out infront of the roc. 

Edited September 19, 2025 by fisherman21

[Kingme2Go]

Found these reports online at

https://nysl.ptfs.com/#!/s?a=c&q=*&type=16&criteria=field11%3D889897048&b=0

 

Interesting information

 

Summarizes pen study and talks about imprinting to pen sites and straying back to hatchery.   Based on sampling at the hatchery and in the river during those years, straying was low, about 10%.

 

889897048_2016 (1) (1).pdf

 

Shows proportions of fish caught at ports and tribs that were stocked there. Results showed good imprinting. Most straying to nearby sites.

 

889897048_2015 (1).pdf

 

[GAMBLER]

On 9/19/2025 at 1:14 PM, HB2 said:

 I disagree with that statement that pen rearing does nothing for return rates . I have witnessed this first hand at Sandy . The return rates have dropped significantly and directly coinside with the stop of pen rearing 3 years prior . Enough of the fish , not all , imprint on the stream they are penned at , IMO.The Oak for example, has a great amount staging this year . Why is that ? Because of increased pen rearing . Sandy , not so much  as years prior . And believe me , I put my time in.  There are some , but not the numbers after we stopped with the pens 

 

The reason they started pen rearing was because they stopped raising kings at Caledonia. And other ports / streams were not getting the returns they once were . That's the fact . Over time they found out that survival rates were better with pen rearing . 

 

I feel this kings for the lake and steelhead for the creek management thing is a bunch of crap to appease some . 

Sounds good but in reality does nothing . 

 

And if pen rearing does nothing for returns , why do it at major ports with economic interests ? Just do the pens at one location , like the Niagara where there is good flow . Why don't they do that ? Because it works . 

 

 

So you are disagreeing with the tagging study?  The tagging study showed MOST of the pen reared kings still return to the Salmon River.  The excuse to shut down the pen projects was made when they did stocking cuts.  They wanted to stock more kings in fewer locations for survival.  The more kings they stock in one location, the higher survival rate (safety in numbers).  The stocking sites were chosen by numbers of fishermen from that port.  Sandy was cut because we only have 15-20 fishing boats compared to the Oak, Genny, Oswego, ect.  

[Gill-T]

The amount of two year old kings as a percentage jumping off the piers at Olcott this weekend was disturbing. There are some things still needing fixin’

[Kingme2Go]

The tagging study actually showed most of the pen fish DO NOT return to Salmon River.  Maybe 10% do. 

[brucehookedup]

On 9/19/2025 at 9:22 AM, rolmops said:

Claiming that the Caledonia hatchery will do the trick does not offer a solution. It brings the chance of a nasty virus returning right back at our doorstep.

It may be time to move the pens upstream to the area where "Spirit Of Rochester" is slowly rotting away. There are docks there. That might give the smolting fingerlings more exposure to the Genny's unique makeup. With just a little bit more current and without the influence of eastern and northern winds that push lake water into the pen area and dilute the Genny "taste", things might look different. This would also neutralize the influence of all the nasty chemicals that were exposed when the new marina was dug on the west side.

This just a suggestion based on trying to point out things that may have changed or might be changed. If it was just a matter of all other things being equal, you might have a point. But not all other things are equal.

Clean the raceways in Caledonia. Moving the pens farther won't matter. You are always negative in many thoughts.  I can't say i ever seen you helping with the pens. Enough said.

[HB2]

I was told by 2 or 3  , let's just say , people in the know , that when stocking cuts were made , that the pen fish would be concentrated to destination ports where there were businesses . 

 

Does anyone actually  believe that less pen sites and concentrating the fish to fewer pens increases survival rates  

 and pen fish don't imprint ? Not all imprint , but some do . 

 

With that logic ,  why not just pen them in one central  location that has good flow for the very best survival ? 

 

The DEC doesn't want Kings in Sandy IMO . Because it's a destination fly fishing stream for browns and now hopefully Atlantic and they dont the salmon crowd . I was told this in a round about way by a high ranking DEC official . 

 

After Labor day till Nov  , I'm not getting or seeing the Kings I once saw stagging or in the creek . This DIRECTLY coincides with the stoppage of pen rearing Kings here . And I am here all the time in the pole position  and see it first hand . 

[rolmops]

15 hours ago, brucehookedup said:

Clean the raceways in Caledonia. Moving the pens farther won't matter. You are always negative in many thoughts.  I can't say i ever seen you helping with the pens. Enough said.

I would rather not have answered this, but some explanation is required.

It is not the cleaning of the raceways that is of consequence. It is the virus that may have penetrated well above the intake of the raceways. In Pulasky the raceways are fed with water that is pumped up out of the ground and is virus free because of that. ( the same goes for the Powder Mill hatchery). Prevention of potential infection is a lot cheaper than having to deal with the effects of infection specially when alternatives are available. don't take it from me, ask Schreckstof. Besides, a policy becomes part of investment planning. The hatchery in Pulasky underwent some serious improvements the last few years. Hopefully lowering mishap events.

Besides , I have helped with the pens  and I have also driven back and forth feeding the fish while they were in the pens. 

Another alternative might be further cleaning of Irondequoit Creek making it more hospitable for natural reproduction, which is already happening there.

A good alternative to the current pen projects could be something that went on for years in the Credit river. Over there in Canada a group of fly fishermen had their own little hatchery like setup right in the river. They got the fry at a quite early age and had them in round pens where they were kept until release. These were steelhead. I remember catching tagged steelhead from there.

A similar project could take shape here, potentially bringing stream and lake fisherman together taking care of the pens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2025 by rolmops

[GAMBLER]

31 minutes ago, rolmops said:

I would rather not have answered this, but some explanation is required.

It is not the cleaning of the raceways that is of consequence. It is the virus that may have penetrated well above the intake of the raceways. In Pulasky the raceways are fed with water that is pumped up out of the ground and is virus free because of that. ( the same goes for the Powder Mill hatchery). Prevention of potential infection is a lot cheaper than having to deal with the effects of infection specially when alternatives are available. don't take it from me, ask Schreckstof. Besides, a policy becomes part of investment planning. The hatchery in Pulasky underwent some serious improvements the last few years. Hopefully lowering mishap events.

Besides , I have helped with the pens  and I have also driven back and forth feeding the fish while they were in the pens. 

Another alternative might be further cleaning of Irondequoit Creek making it more hospitable for natural reproduction, which is already happening there.

A good alternative to the current pen projects could be something that went on for years in the Credit river. Over there in Canada a group of fly fishermen had their own little hatchery like setup right in the river. They got the fry at a quite early age and had them in round pens where they were kept until release. These were steelhead. I remember catching tagged steelhead from there.

A similar project could take shape here, potentially bringing stream and lake fisherman together taking care of the pens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Niagara County offered to fund a hatchery years ago and the idea was shut down by the DEC.