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New SalmonAngler/Gear questions


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Hi Everyone.  I have been reading this site for about a year, lots of helpful advice.  Need some details on reels/wire.

I am going to buy the Okuma cv 30D convector reels.  I can get them at Tacke Haven prespooled with 150 yards of 20lb mono backing and 600 feet of wire.  Is the 20lb mono sufficient or do I need 30lb?  Also it does not say what wire it is and have read there is 7 wire, 19 etc.  I am pretty clueless what to get.??  So not sure if I should buy prespooled?

I am planning on running dipseys on the wire and then probably one or two downriggers

Can i go with the 20 Okuma reel for the downrigger?

Otherwise going to get Okuma GLT rods, twilley tips.  That at least my

Initial plan after studying this site. 

Thanks for any all advice on the reel/backing/wire issue and anything else for new Lake Ontario angler.

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A lot of different ways to go with this but most of us use 1000 ft of 7 strand wire, some use 1000 ft of 19 strand. Basically the 7 strand isn't as kink resistant and may develop curly ques more easily than 19 strand stainless wire but the 19 strand has finer filament wires composing it that can break without noticing them and it is "springyier". It is also easier on the guides and tips of the rods.  If mono backing is used it is usually to protect the spool and keep the wire from nesting unevenly on the spool and a short length of 40 lb or so used (e..g. 50 ft or so). One problem with pre-spooled wire is you don't know who put it on  (and whether competently or not). The wire should be put on under even tension and started at the center of the spool and spread evenly across the spool. It is also helpful after it is loaded on the reel to attach a weight or diver without anything else on it while in the boat and running out about half to three quarters of the wire under tension (carefully and slowly). This will allow the wire to be evenly nested on the spool under the right tension and can save you headaches later on.

I believe the 30 size reel will hold the 1,000 ft of wire. The Okuma GLT rods should be OK for the riggers and could be used for wire but they have soft tip action and are not really the best choice for wire rods. Stiffer rods seem to better serve that purpose from 6 1/2 to 9 ft or so (twilli tip or roller tip can be used). Often if multiple wire rods are used the shorter ones are used on the inside the longer on the outside. The Okuma 20's or 30's should work OK for the riggers and many folks use either 30 to 40 lb Berkely Big Game mono or Bloodrun SeaFlee in 30 lb test for their main line with fluoro leaders or 20 lb or so for Lake O (can be lighter in the Spring for browns). Just suggestions as there are many ways of going about this with good results and depending on your wallet:smile: P.S. ANY wire used should always be kept under tension to avoid problems.

Edited by Sk8man
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Lot of detail for an apparent newbe ! 20 lb. mono of fluro works fine for salmon ; as posted can go lighter for spring browns maybe 12 lb. We have stopped using wire braid is easier for us but use what works for us ! IMO after 34 years fishing on the south shore tackle did not mare much difference to us ie. what was at the end of the tackle starting with quality swivels and the bait [ lures ] changing every year is the bottom line for us !

Captain Dan Keating has several books on salmon fishing , the latest is " Big Water Wisdom " with   detailed Q & A . His expertise is on Lake Michigan but the general advice still works ! 

 

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Thanks for the input so far.  I may spool the reels myself or perhaps Fat Nancy will do it...they seem to be a reputable bait/tackle shop.

Back quickly to the rods...so the GLT okuma are not good choice for running wire dipseys? I have seen some folks use blue diamond rods or of course other pricey rods.  I live in PA near Pittsburgh so I prob will only make it up for one trip a year or so.  So figure I don't need the top of line takle...but still want to make decent choices.  Appreciate some rod recommendations for wire dipseys.

Also, from my extensive reading of this site it seemed like the consesus was to use wire over braid due to the fleas.  Is that correct?

Is a twilli tip needed at all if say i go up for 5 days a year?  Wasn't sure if it helped reeling or just saved the eyelets.

Thanks again.  I do fish Lake Erie frequently so I am not a total newbie to Great Lakes....but this salmon fishing on Lake Ontario seems a bit more complicated so just trying to keep it simple....(I have prob read a ton on this site...great place thanks again.)

Lastly, me and my wife rented a place in Olcott for next summer just to come up and fish....trying to get all my ducks in a row prior to....I have a couple more questions but will just get the rods figured out 1st.

(And yes....I see it can get pricey...rods and reels...500, fishhawk 800, lures

Oh and lets not forget fuel since prices are way up.)

 

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Hey Odie,

 

Here are my 2 cents since I'd undergone in 2021 the conversion from super-newbie to beginner-level professional :smile:

 

You absolutely have to get a FishHawk if you don't have it yet - this would be the number #1 stuff you need on your boat. I wish I would have gotten it sooner but I was pretty overwhelmed when I started trolling so it took me a season to just get my hand around this whole stuff...

 

Moving on... So first of all, I would not buy anything pre-spooled, I would do it all myself but I would seek an advice from your nearest tackle shop (where you will be buying all the stuff).

 

Next, for your reference, 2021 was my 1st season on wire (Lake Ontario north shore), I had a salmon spooling me almost 500ft in addition to 300ft wire out. So that amounts to 800 ft that is clearly more than offered on the pre-spooled option.

 

Therefore, with regards to the wire, get a 2 spools of 1000ft of 19-strand wire (I use from Torpedo), and put each onto the respective reel. On each reel, you would fit approximately 90-100 reel handle cranks of 50lb braid onto the Okuma size 30 reel covered by an electrical tape, then tie an Albright knot to the 1000ft wire spool and then reel all the 1000ft onto the reel under a tension. Practice wireline knot a few time it is very easy.

 

Alternatively, you can reel 1000 ft on the 2nd spool first, then tie an Albright knot to the wire (cover the wire end of the knot with a very thin heat shrink), then set a drag so that the wire remains under tension, and then spool it onto the 1st spool. When you get on the lake, optionally hook a dipsy and let all wire out, then reel it back it. I did not do it, I used the 2-spool process but many recommend you do that.

 

Many professionals use 7-strand wire but I decided to go 19-strand because as my local tackle shop recommended for a beginner to start with a little more user-friendly, it has higher lb-test, can survive light kinks and also I am folding the wire dipsy roller rods in 2 for transportation while leaving an arc in the wire (!!!).

 

With regards to the rods, you need a dedicated wire dipsy rod. If you can afford a roller rods, get the ones with the AFTCO rollers. For the downrigger, anything goes, the classic pro GLT are great but... if you want the good stuff, I would suggest an Okuma White Diamond 8.6ft medium (I use the same one but medium-light for Erie). You feel the fish differently with these rods and the fight is more enjoyable.

 

For your downrigger, you should get also a size 30 Okuma and spool it with 40 lb mono. The brand is not as important, I used Big Game, Triplefish, others use Ande etc. You can get by with size 20 for the spring and let's say 20-25lb mono but we usually do 40lb because 1) Salmons are big and flashers/meat are made with 40-50lb fluoro and there is enough force that pulls the main line and 2) Fleas are terrible.

 

Well, this will get you started... Good luck from ex-newbie :smile:

Vlad

Edited by Vladislav
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Thanks for all the above replies.  I think I am on my way.  I am def going to a fishhawk and the cv 30d convector reels.  Just got to decide on my poles.  I am leaning towards some of the okuma rods with swivel tips.

Not to open up another can of worms but last spring I think I read on this site that the 19 strand torpedo wire was a bit of a pain to put on.  Any thoughts on that?

But also if it is more forgiving for a beginner that will go along way towards making me choose it.

Thank you.

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Like I said earlier, arbor knot on the spool electrical tape, ~100 handle cranks of braid and Albright knot to the wire. I never heard about 19-strand wire being worse than 7-strand in terms of pain to put on or otherwise. As I understand it, is that the 7-strand wire is cheaper and it dives a little deeper as it is a little thinner but it is 30lb test, not as tolerant to kinks as the 19-strand one and if 1 strand brakes, I am pretty sure you would rather have 18 more strands than 6 more strands to back it up.


Also not to open a can of worms or start an argument but I do notice that many experienced anglers and charter captains run 7-strand but one very nice gentleman who is a charter captain and tackle shop owner precisely for these reasons suggested that as a beginner, I would start with 19-strand 45 lb test wire that is more tolerant to kinks and so on... And perhaps later in in a few years I will be on 7-strand, you never know... So far I cannot complain on one advice that I regret following it. So I am just passing it on... Cheers

Edited by Vladislav
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That sounds good to me....I have prob read too many posts since last year spring...lots of excellent tips.  I will give the 19 wire a try Vlad.  

I will post again once I buy some gear after the holidays also.

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The 7 strand/19 strand/ braid issue is basically like many of the other things a "personal preference" issue. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses depending on what someone considers a "priority" for them. I've been using various wire options for over 50 years and none of them are "perfect" but depending on what they are used for, the care given them, the proper installation on the reels, and proper eyes and tips used on the rods any of it works once you get used to it. seven strand cuts through the water a bit better than 19 strand but it is also harder on the equipment and either a high quality roller tip (stainless) is needed or a twilli tip (the much cheaper option but a different feel to it), can develop curly ques and kinks when precautions are not taken in its care, can cut into or cut through cheap roller tip side plates. 19 strand on the other hand is not as hard on the eyelets or rod tips and generally less damaging to rod guides and tips but can be a bit "unwieldy) in that it is "springy" without spool memory, but it's compositional filaments are very fine and can break and weaken the wire without it being very apparent visually. The use of crimps on wire brings another  potential concern if not properly done and is a main reason wire knots are used with the wire by many folks. Improper crimping can create weak spots at either juncture (end) of the crimp connection by allowing the wire to wiggle back and forth on the edge of it weakening the wire and potentially breaking strands over time. Crimping too hard at the ends of the crimp can also damage the wire and weaken it and both types of wire can be vulnerable to this. The advice that was given about using the 19 strand for a beginner or novice was probably related to the fact that it may be less prone to kinking and when not used to 7 strand use and maintenance 19 strand could be  less problematic ; not that it is necessarily "better". A lot of people prefer braid over wire of either type, but again there are strengths and weaknesses. Braid cuts through the water with reduced "blowback", kinking isn't a real problem, it is easier on the hands but over time can also saw into rod eyelets and tips nearly like 7 strand especially found on poorer quality rods. When using smaller diameter braid like 30 or 40 lb test the braid can nest in the edge of a roller tip and cut off conributing to the donation of equipment to Mother Nature:lol:. The biggest general drawback to using braid especially in smaller diameters is that water fleas easily accrue on it during flea season and depending on type of flea harder to remove from the line (the Fishhook type of fleas seems harder to remove than the Spiny waterfleas). Braid may need to be replaced more frequently than wire that is carefully taken care of.

Edited by Sk8man
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Appreciate all that data SK8man....I use braid on Lake Erie but we don't seem to have any flea issues.  That plus the fact that so many anglers on this site seem to love wire divers I sorta feel I need to just try them and get a little experience under my belt.

With regards to the fleas....what months do the little buggers tend to be bad?  We are coming up in mid July to the Olcott area.  Wasn't sure if they would be there at that time.

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The flea season varies from year to year and the concentrations in the lake vary in their distribution as well, but usually when the water temp in in the 60's and higher they are present and last until temps go back down usually in the early Fall. They are intermittent in the lake though for whatever reason and sometimes they don't seem to be as problematic but when they highly concentrate they can be terrible and prevent you from retrieving your line without a lot of hassle especially when you have a good fish on:smile: and they can make a mess of your boat as well. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do and don't let it deter you from having some fun:smile:

Edited by Sk8man
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