Well , I guess we know now

[Gator]

I recall looking at a bunch of data on naturalization last year and finding that the size of saltwater species introduced to freshwater generally declines as they adapt, through epigenetics or whatever transgenerational influence holds sway over growth rates. They also tend toward earlier reproductive maturity. I don't think this is limited to kings. And I don't think that there's anything fisheries managers can do to mitigate the process, even if they wanted, although I'd be the last one to say that data doesn't matter lol. Information is power, but sometimes the outcome is just in God's hands. So long as the fish are healthy and drags are screaming, I'm going to enjoy what we have.

[Yankee Troller]

11 hours ago, spoonfed-1 said:

Then why don't the lake managers age these fish when they run up into the hatchery?

 

 

I'm pretty sur they do Glenn, and it's showed an increase in 2yr old's maturing over the years.

 

What I can't wrap my head around......the fact they see no problem taking sperm from jacks at the hatchery "becasue it's sperm is more potent." No sh*t! Have you seen the MTV show teen mom . If you're concerned with impotent fish then take a little extra in the Fall to insure you meet quotas at stocking. However, the easy way out is to use a freak of nature. What do I know besides data showing shrinking salmon sizes year after year.

 

Lets try to understand why the North shore gets the biggest fish in the lake year in and year out (proven by derby data). They have the best streams for natural reproduction on the lake, and that's proven without a doubt since most of these places HAVE NEVER BEEN STOCKED. Do you think a jack is gonna get to spawn with a 25-30lb female? Heck no! How about we start there?

[Gill-T]

Agreed there is no unnatural selection going on in natal streams so including a policy/procedure to only strip from three and four year olds based on body size at Altmar makes sense. We probably should be tagging these 12-14 lb fish to see if we can figure out which stream they were born from. The Niagara is an X factor that we don’t know about. 

[spoonfed-1]

2 hours ago, Yankee Troller said:

 

 

I'm pretty sur they do Glenn, and it's showed an increase in 2yr old's maturing over the years.

 

 

Thanks Rick. I was not aware of this data.

[Gator]

I stand corrected. I had no idea that jacks were being used. Thanks, Rick.

[HB2]

I also see that the Canadian side produces the biggest fish of the season 

 

As these fish are transient , or supposedly swim  all over the lake , it seems with all the good fisherman on our side of the fence  , one of us would hookup once in a while . 

 

I still believe that an ample supply of baitfish , at least to some degree , influences the size . If a fish is around a  good supply of bait ,common sense would say that it would not wonder far from that ,and stuff it's face 24/7.  Compare that to a fish caught mid lake this season especially where not a lot of bait was present . You are what you  eat . 

 

 I also believe , and have been saying for a long time with some pushback , these fish are evolving and adapting to LO from their ancestors environment of the ocean . Certainly they are eating somewhat different forage here than in an ocean environment . 

 

From my correspondence with DEC last year , they are all in on the bait, or lack of it, being the direct correlation with size . 

[GAMBLER]

16 minutes ago, HB2 said:

I also see that the Canadian side produces the biggest fish of the season 

 

As these fish are transient , or supposedly swim  all over the lake , it seems with all the good fisherman on our side of the fence  , one of us would hookup once in a while . 

 

I still believe that an ample supply of baitfish , at least to some degree , influences the size . If a fish is around a  good supply of bait ,common sense would say that it would not wonder far from that ,and stuff it's face 24/7.  Compare that to a fish caught mid lake this season especially where not a lot of bait was present . You are what you  eat . 

 

 I also believe , and have been saying for a long time with some pushback , these fish are evolving and adapting to LO from their ancestors environment of the ocean . Certainly they are eating somewhat different forage here than in an ocean environment . 

 

From my correspondence with DEC last year , they are all in on the bait, or lack of it, being the direct correlation with size . 

I heard the trawls showed a lot of the bait was in Canadian waters.  The big kings are more than likely hanging out at the buffet.

[fcboats]

We know how to target big kings and don't bother with the little guys.  Seriously though, I'm blessed to be in an area which touts the best cold water fishing and large spawning runs for the most part.  What I did notice was a much lower quantity of kings last fall compared to typical years.

 

And for sure we will never return to the size of kings of the 1980's.  Lots of brutes back then where the smallest fish during the GOSD or TO Star derbies was 37lbs.

[BRsnow]

1 hour ago, fcboats said:

We know how to target big kings and don't bother with the little guys.  Seriously though, I'm blessed to be in an area which touts the best cold water fishing and large spawning runs for the most part.  What I did notice was a much lower quantity of kings last fall compared to typical years.

 

And for sure we will never return to the size of kings of the 1980's.  Lots of brutes back then where the smallest fish during the GOSD or TO Star derbies was 37lbs.

It might return, Lake Michigan is staring to get back to the glory day sizes and set the Great Lakes record for Chinook a couple years ago. 

[Yankee Troller]

20 hours ago, HB2 said:

I also see that the Canadian side produces the biggest fish of the season 

 

As these fish are transient , or supposedly swim  all over the lake , it seems with all the good fisherman on our side of the fence  , one of us would hookup once in a while . 

 

I still believe that an ample supply of baitfish , at least to some degree , influences the size . If a fish is around a  good supply of bait ,common sense would say that it would not wonder far from that ,and stuff it's face 24/7.  Compare that to a fish caught mid lake this season especially where not a lot of bait was present . You are what you  eat . 

 

 I also believe , and have been saying for a long time with some pushback , these fish are evolving and adapting to LO from their ancestors environment of the ocean . Certainly they are eating somewhat different forage here than in an ocean environment . 

 

From my correspondence with DEC last year , they are all in on the bait, or lack of it, being the direct correlation with size . 

 

There is bait on the South shore all season, and we can't touch their leaderboards (which zero out every week) with a month long derby. It's not that the big ones are hanging with the bait.

 

8 hours ago, BRsnow said:

It might return, Lake Michigan is staring to get back to the glory day sizes and set the Great Lakes record for Chinook a couple years ago. 

 

I wouldn't give Lake Michigan all the hype. They have seen some large specimens in recent years, but if you watch tournament videos Lake Trout play a big role in their catches still. Talking to those guys over there they'd kill for what we have right now.

[BRsnow]

2 hours ago, Yankee Troller said:

 

There is bait on the South shore all season, and we can't touch their leaderboards (which zero out every week) with a month long derby. It's not that the big ones are hanging with the bait.

 

 

I wouldn't give Lake Michigan all the hype. They have seen some large specimens in recent years, but if you watch tournament videos Lake Trout play a big role in their catches still. Talking to those guys over there they'd kill for what we have right now.

The size of fish and quantities seem to be trending back to the haydays. The K/D tournament gives a good history of sizes. Obviously Lake Ontario is an amazing fishery, was just referencing the discussion of salmon size.

[Kingme2Go]

Compare Michigan age 3 average size at weirs vs Lake Ontario at Salmon River hatchery weir found in their reports.  Lake Ontario has been higher most years.  Chinook in August in Lake Ontario are even larger.

 

Lake Ontario in August

Salmon River

 

Lake michigan weirs

[BRsnow]

I don’t fish the MI side,  not saying who has better fishing, pointing out that over the past few seasons they appear to be getting bigger while I read here how you all feel yours are getting smaller. It seems you can reverse the trends. The WI plan seems to be working with Browns and salmon so far.

Edited May 25 by BRsnow

[BRsnow]

update:

2024 Sheboygan Salmon Cup 
KMDA INC 1K a Day Winners 
Friday: Hell ON Reels 26.10
Saturday: Liquor Box 23.74
Sunday: Secret Asian Man 33.50
Big 3: Black Jaw 62.88

Pictured below is Secret Asian Man 33.50# King from today caught on a Salmon Candy Blue Stud Uv flasher and illumination fly! Congrats!

 

 

5 fish limit, largest king I believe just under 27.  This is Wisconsin side
 

 

2024 Sheboygan Salmon Cup Day 1 Pro Division Results 

1. Vendetta 2.0 94.46#
2. Mvp 93.22#
3. Rocks and Reels 90.92#
4. Karma III 73.66
5. Liquor Box 70.28
6. Fish Stik 68.94
7. Poseidon 62.50
8. Great Oz 59.62
9. Piss on money 51.92
10. Pure Chaos 51.78
11. Hell on Reels 51.24
12. Pennisula Pursuit 45.88
13. Grandpa VI 37.08
14. Outta Line 28.46
15. For Real? 18.74

Edited Sunday at 11:41 PM by BRsnow