Fall LOC Derby stats

[Persistence]

I had some time and was interested on the weights for the last few years.

Here goes:

Salmon

'07 29.46 mean weight of 21 fish / Range 31.15 - 28.12

'06 34.08 mean weight of 21 fish / Range 38.14 - 32.04

'05 29.84 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 32.09 - 29.06

Browns:

'07 11.92 mean weight of 13 fish / Range 14.05 - 10.08

'06 11.23 mean weight of 12 fish / Range 13.03 - 10.00

'05 12.58 mean weight of 6 fish / Range 13.11 - 12.04

Lakers:

'07 15.43 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 21.05 - 13.11

'06 14.92 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 19.05 - 13.01

'05 16.55 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 24.11 - 14.06

Steelhead:

'07 14.37 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 17.06 - 13.11

'06 13.96 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 16.13 - 13.00

'05 12.43 mean weight of 20 fish / Range 13.15 - 12.00

Looks like '06 for Salmon was a great year class! '07 on average with '05

Browns were on average but interestly the division has not been filled for the last three years. Perhaps due to fisherman not targetting Browns.

Lakers down a over a pound from '05

Steelhead up each year and almost two pounds over '05

I am sure everyone will look at the numbers differently but I thought it interesting to post.

[Yankee Troller]

Nice job Pat! Very Interesting.....

[motoman]

interesting too see in black and white , small fish this year from what ive cought and seen and heard ,lol we need some eggs from alaska from some 60-70 pound kings, can you imagine 2011 , the fish would be huge people would be scratching there heads up at altma hatchery !

[Persistence]

Yankee and Motoman, perhaps the drop in size in the Kings can be explained by the 3 to 4 week delay in the lake warming and getting the Kings to start feeding. I believe the alwives and smelt came in late also from talking to guys at the West end. Obviously there was feeding going on but not as heavily as an early Spring. Correct me if I am wrong.

Motoman, 50 to 60 pound Kings!! Now that would be fun!!!!!

[windburn]

Aren't the Kings from Alaska and the left coast 6 year fish? I've always thought that gave them an extra two years to pack on the lbs. Seems to me our fish were running a few pounds lighter this season. If you look at last year's LOC salmon division, the 20th place would have beaten the grand prize weight this year.

[FLXTroutman]

I fished out of Seattle, Puget Sound, Tulalip Bubble ( Rez. Hatchery), native kings were endangered species, no take fishery, in Sound, however the Tulalip Bubble supported kings which were cookie cutter teenagers 15-18 lbs.

My research found spawning migrations vary by species with 4-7 year lifecycles for ocean fish. However some ocean going chinook salmon will live for 9 years before spawning which accounts for the 100 lb. fish. Pinks have the shortest life cycle by comparison at 2 years spawning in odd numbered years

[Persistence]

Guys, thanks for your input. It is interesting to read all the different experiences and thoughts on the fishery. It just goes to prove that we are a group fishermen and fisherwomen who have a deep interest in the fishery. It is good to see those individuals with experiences outside our fishery to add their thoughts on the various topics that are discussed on the site and to compare our fishery with those that they have experienced.

Those 60,70,100lb salmon have to be really something to have on a rod and reel. Alaska - one of my dream trips.

[Tim Bromund]

I think it was the shortened growing season this year. If you remember in 2006, half of January and all of february was unseasonably mild, and the fish likley strapped on the feedbag for half the winter. Considering that these fish put on a pound a week when in full feeding mode, that would explain the 5-8 lb larger fish we saw last year.

Tim

[Billy V]

We've been lamenting the smaller class of fish out of Fair Haven all season long too. I think that the shorter gorwing season theory might hold a lot of merit. I never made it down to the Bar this spring, but from what I've seen on all the message boards, it was definitely a very late start down that way. Overall it's been a fantastic season for us, just a bit disappointing in August as far as the size of fish goes.

Thanks for posting those numbers Pat. Very interesting. I never would have guessed that 31.15 would win the LOC after the pig that won last year!

[GAMBLER]

Pat,

The winning laker in 05 was not 21.11 it was 24.11. That will make the gap even bigger.

[motoman]

NEWS FLASH- back in the 80s there where 40 + pounders on the board , and a 35 pounder would"nt get you on the loc-B the smaller fish deal is from the eggs/ or strains / blood line/ think of it like this! Too champion dogs never mind the breed -8 out of ten of the puppys are going too be like there parents, less the training of couse but good heath bones hips blood same deal with the eggs, ive watch them strip eggs from the fish and they take almost anything //////// now if i was taking the eggs up there in altmar i would be tanking the biggest ones up and the small ones would be trucked back down stream for what i call a re-run -makes for good fishing even those guys from N.J with the fishing poles that look like baseball bats would catch one or two ,anyways a big male and female fish are going too make some big fish with of couse some runts , unless there is some other problem like the bait fish are in shortage or a clemical spill , this is just my thought too this ! small ones are better that non anyday

[Persistence]

Brian, thanks for noticing the typo. The mean weight does not change as I calculated it using 24.11. The range will increase as you stated.

Motoman, I have been up to Altmar also and have seen the egg taking process. The day Iwas there, Oct.15th ) the guys stripping eggs seemed to be selective in the females they used. Males not so much. Most were placed back into the tube for a "rerun" without being used at all. Weither this was due to the females not being ready or they were on the small size I am not sure. They were also taking the early maturing "jacks" out of the population as they came down the tubes.

I agree with your anology to a point, however, guys from up and down the lake have commented on the samller size of the fish they are catching. Canadian charter captains and recreational fisherman have also noticed the smaller size. This is not to say that the fish are "runts". I can't believe we are catching only the smaller fish in the population. The LOC stats and the DEC catch reports demonstrate the overall weight of the fish down the last few years. '06 was a great class of salmon weither it was due to an abundance of bait, earlier Spring, size at stocking or some other effect ,all are understandable theories.

[ray koziatek]

I think it all related to the fishes inteligance levels,there in schools all day they gotta be learning something ,with all the talk about transfatty oils and these new weight loss programs there just being a little more healthy in their life style. thats why them 20 lb fish fight so much harder they been working out staying trim and strong.man if im talking this way now just think what this winter will bring... opps gotta go were under attack must get my tin foil hat before its too late..................

[motoman]

All i was saying with the big big ones if i was there i would be selcting them, also they may be trying too balance the lake, maybe the big ones eat everything. I am sure they are keeping a close eye on things like that and are using some sort of method . lol RAY-K you are plain crazy when ya comin back up for the 10th time .john

[King Davy]

I think we have to take into account the fact that for the past 8 years the DEC has been doing a yearly seining study on the salmon river in May and June. capturing wild king salmon smolts working their way to lake Ontario.

I've participated in this study. Other then the spring of I think 2003...where the fall of 2002 was very dry and poor natural reproduction...Cape Vincent Biologist Dr Mike......(can't think of his last name at the moment...get over 50...and the memory starts to leave you) has detailed results that says between 3 and 6 million smolts successfully hatch out of the Salmon river. This is due to since 1998 the base flow agreements with the power companies that have run the powerstation up in Altmar.

Doesn't make sense to me that all of this great fishing is only due to the 1.6 million fish that are planted. I truly believe Pen rearing has been succeessful...but combine that with a shot in the arm of another (on Avg. 3.5 million salmon smolts.....you are going to have even with a 2 or 4% survival rate three and four year classes of fish that raise the total in the lake by several thousands.

The alewife population fluxuations are legendary on our lake...they get real low...but they bouince back. Wild fish in any species...and I've had the pleasure of fishing for many wild species in Canada and Alaska....are historicaly much better at survying poor food web situations then stocked fish.

Funny that with only 100 CFS of water running out of the salmon river they are getting solid pushes of fish daily right now into 70 degree water...while the rest of the warm water rivers are not. I believe these are wild salmon...that are much more tolerent of the natural conditions then the stocked fish....and they run regardless of the river temp. We won't know for sure until we get into the new tagging routine that DEC is lobbying to employ if they get to spend some of the Hooker Chem money....where they can tag all the stocked fish without handling them...and use the same scanner whne the fish come back as adults to see if they are wild or stocked. My theory is that we probably have more adult wild fish then stocked fish now.

Wild fish in this kind of stressed system will survive to adulthood better then stocked fish...they will be smaller...but their numbers will be decent. There is a Salmon River lake ontario strain of king salmon...and they will survive food web fluxuations....and in doing so will fluxuate in their size as well.

On a wet fall...and wet spring many streams on the south shore have produced wild fish...including our Sandy Creek. DEC the past two years have also netted a significant number of now wild COHO salmon....hows the Coho fishing been ?????????

Soooo...what I'm saying...we have many more salmon then we plant...a higher % wild then one would guess...that naturally won't grow on Avg. per year class as big...but survive better in stressful conditions....and create a sound fishery.

[Fishstix]

I fished Lake Ontario and all I caught was a tin foil hat.

I guess next yr Im going to have to start keeping track of fish caught.

I had my best yr on LO ever. Some days when the "bite was on" we caught to many fish. Probably should have left them alone on those days.

Those 20lb kings fought like the devil. The Cohos were all over . rainbow bloodbaths,and my best brn trout day was 45 fish.

Im our area of the lake this fall the kings were in the brn trout water . We would fish for brns but usually ended up with kings.

IMO the steady action more than made up for size.

It could be a simple answer like "numbers are up and size is down"