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Yankee Troller

East end No Comm violations?

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It's news to my ears. Was there really violators on the no communication rule during the Oswego and Sodus Pro Ams?

The blurb in the picture was written by Bill Hilts recently. I hope it's not true, but would like to hear from the tourney organizers.

Sent from my Droid Maxx using the Lake Ontario United App.

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I was there from the beginning to end of each day in Oswego and Sodus, they ran flawless to the best of my knowledge. I have actually been involved in participation of the Oswego Pro/Am for over 15 years, I have never heard of a problem, not even 1, there has been the odd DQ of various nature through the years but again never pertaining to Closed Communication.

 

I feel as every single Lake Ontario "major" event has either gone to No Communication or is on the brink of it, we will never rid the "haters" so to say. Closed Communication is here to stay and some just cant accept the fact that it has worked all along and is working so effortlessly along the entire front of the tourney scene, North and South

 

Tom

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Did anyone see Bill Hilts there either day? I don't recall him being there. He probably won't reveal his sources though. I didn't hear of any violations!!! 

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IMO this is just another attempt at dismissing No Comm as not being possible.  Bill Hilts was not at either venue to our team's knowledge.

 

Tom said it right, there are haters and always will be.  In a word: RIDICULOUS

 

If comm was occuring the offending parties know who they are.  And, if caught, should be condemned.

 

Dex

Team Thrillseeker

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I fished every event on the lake and dont remember a single communication violation.  Karma is a motherf#cker!!  If someone is low enough to cheat their fellow friends and anlgers KARMA will get their ass.. It may take sometime but itll get ya...  Only 7 months til Dalhousie!! cant wait to do it all over again!!  I agree with Tom the overall numbers in the pro am are down lakewide.  To make a statement that closed communication after only 1 year didnt have an effect on the events is absurd.  Itll take time to rebuild the pro ams in Oswego and Sodus.  I want to personally thank Tom Burke, Tom Allen, Rob Ripka, Matt Leclair, Rod Keyser. and all others involved in taking personal time out of their lives to organize 2 great events that allowed us to do what we all love.  Keep up the good work men its greatly appreciated!!   

 

 

Casey

 

Cold Steel

Edited by cigs187

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From an article published out of "Outdoor News" written in early July by Bill and I quote:

 

As an experiment in 2013, Oswego County returned to an older Pro-Am format that returned to the pro- and amateur-style of an event with closed communications. At the time of this writing, the tournament numbers were at an all-time low. Communications wasn’t the determining factor after all.

 

We need to consider the source when deliberating on all info we read pertaining to something that someone is pro or con on. It's obvious who is against Open Communication and who is for it, a majority has openly spoken repeatedly, someone would have to be blind (or not want it) not to see it. If we were all to compare numbers on tourney entry its pretty easy to see where the majorities (of teams in this case) are putting their money now days. Just to answer the comment in the Outdoor News article from above, it would be easier and more believable to say: Tournament numbers across the Pro/Am series have significantly decreased for many years once Closed Communication was opened.

 

The Oswego Pro/Am took a hit over the last 8 years or so, I don't feel anyone would argue (ok maybe 2 entities that come to mind of the top of my head) that to come back in 1 year would be a pretty hard feat, thus after it was wrecked. Give it time, lets see what a few years down the road may do, if it doesn't grow in a couple years then maybe its time for us to bow out as too much damage may actually be irreversible? But to fabricate info like has been stated is pretty dog-gone low. Unless I am wrong here and there is a higher power that knows all. 

 

Tom

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Bill hilts is a jerk

 

Not really necessary.....He's entitled to his opinion. However, I don't think his statements are true, which is why I started this thread. I want to find out if those violations were true.

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These tournaments aren't set up to see who can out communicate the competition. You and only you should be allowed to control your own destiny! To all the "haters", Shut up and FISH! All hail NO COMM!

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As far as the Sodus pro am goes there were no problems with teams violating the no communication rule. There were no rules infractions at all with the exception of a couple of teams having observer issues and those were handled in accordance to the rules. I am not sure where Bill got his information about Sodus, but it was not from anyone involved with running the tournament.

Jeff Zimmer

Cold water Affair

Sodus pro am

Edited by Time Out

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By way of simple deduction, whoever told Bill Hilts there was communication was occurring KNOWS who was communicating.  Therefore if this someone KNOWS who communicated and how, this person should step forward and reveal the offending party or parties.  I'm confident the teams who fished one or both events have enough faith in the current administrators to handle the situation swiftly and appropriately.

 

So PLEASE, whoever you are step forward and NOT thru a publication where public opinion can be swayed in a controversial manner.

 

I'm off my soapbox.....

 

Dex

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As director of the Sodus Pro/Am I can promise everyone that there wasn’t any communication infractions were brought up...except for some unfortunate weather ( such as waves and wind destroying our tent) the tournament ran smooth and we would like to thank all the teams that attended this year’s pro/am. Although doubtful, if teams did communicate it will eventually be known and they will not be accepted back to Sodus.

 

If one reads into the article it is obvious that Hilts is writing this merely to try and sway Orleans to stay open communication. Orleans is a prime example of why there’s a huge need for closed to communication due to tough fishing conditions that often greet us there.

 

 As Tom has stated earlier closed communication is the way of the future and if some closed minded fabricators want to try and stop change then they have another thing coming. Oswego and Sodus were the first pro/am’s to actually listen to what the competitors wanted in a tournament and no matter what Bill Hilts and his buddies want to write we will continue our quest to provide a tournament that the majority wants. We brought back closed communication and the amateur division and saw some teams that have been missing far too long. We look forward to building back the trust that Hilts and his cronies ruined and make the pro/am’s vibrant again.

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Theres not much I can add to what has already been posted here. It is sad and offensive that this was actually put in an article. We were at both events and they were extremely well run. We thank the organizers and the volunteers and we look forward to helping both events grow again after the damage of "open Comm".

"Open Comm" has no place in Lake Ontario fishing tournaments. It skews results and ruins friendships and camaraderie. There are plenty of derbies if you want to compete and talk.

The people/players have spoken, "No Comm" provides the greatest challenge and fairest playing field.

If Orleans county has seen the light, kudos!

We must all keep in mind that these events were founded on the very foundation of "No Comm", so they aren't just the future they were the beginning as well.

Saying that you can't enforce a rule so you should discard it is like saying the speed limit should be lifted on all roads or fish and game bag limits should be done away with.

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I will be competing next year once again BECAUSE of the no communication events.  I would like to see the events take the no communication rule one step further......do away with the required GPS coordinates of where fish are caught rule.  Who cares where the fish are caught in Lake Ontario????   By having those coordinates out there after day 1 scores, there are too many eyes on those score sheets to effect day 2 scores.  Who cares if you want to fish in Canada.  If you want to burn the gas, get canadian licenses...good for you, it will spread out the field and give us all more room.

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Just to update: The positive responses here are making a difference!!! Thanks to Matt and Jeff and all for you input, further investigation may ensue into the alleged "public" false accusations.

 

After I first heard word of the potential Orleans County Pro/Am future No Communication decision and now even more it sure is a good feeling knowing "almost" all of our county officials are hopping on the majorities side (:

 

At the current time our Lake Ontario tourney scene isn't as vast as all of us involved someday hope it to be, but to many of us its something to look forward to in a way we look forward to nothing else. A certain positive change is inevitable I feel, time will tell~~~~

 

Tom

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Tom, would you happen to know what the entry fee is for the amateur division ?

Thanks

Tom B

Sent from my XT907 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

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  Our team was very active this past season in most if not all of the Lake Ontario tournaments whether they were open communication or not. Communication really had no influence on why we wanted to fish them. In fact, some of our team members prefer closed communication over open, but not all. We fish the tournaments because we enjoy the competition and all that goes with it. If there are differences between one end of the lake to the other regarding this matter, so what?

  I think one of the biggest reasons that the east end of the lake numbers are down has to do with economy but also the time of year. I know personally as a charter boat operator that June is typically a very slow month for charters. Come July however,  business starts to pick up all across the lake. With this depressed economy a lot of charter captains are finding themselves having to take the "sure" money by running charters and getting paid. Having to rely upon winning a tournament to cash in is just too risky. Let's not even talk about the costs associated with participating in a tourney in the first place and all that goes with it. 

 To the best of my knowledge there were no open communication violations in those tournaments that were run that way. I sure would like to see where Mr. Hilt's got his information regarding this matter to support him making a statement like that.. Perhaps he would like to chime in.

  When it all comes down to it, it would be nice if we could all just get along and knock off the B******it. 

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I will be competing next year once again BECAUSE of the no communication events.  I would like to see the events take the no communication rule one step further......do away with the required GPS coordinates of where fish are caught rule.  Who cares where the fish are caught in Lake Ontario????   By having those coordinates out there after day 1 scores, there are too many eyes on those score sheets to effect day 2 scores.  Who cares if you want to fish in Canada.  If you want to burn the gas, get canadian licenses...good for you, it will spread out the field and give us all more room.

 

Hey!!!! Stop trying to use logic and common sense. That has no place when it comes to making tournament rules.

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When you hear about those cases where an observer screwed up writing down the GPS coordinates, the captain did not confirm the observer recorded them correctly.....with everything involved with entering and running a team, money invested etc. etc. seems really silly to have the days catch disqualified over GPS coordinates. So ask the question.....does it matter? You can't fly to the Kenai and back in the time it for weigh-in so of course the fish are caught in Lake Ontario. Volunteers and tournament officials are often also participants and they are privy to these day 1 results. Just make the process simpler and above board....do away with GPS coordinate requirements.

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When you hear about those cases where an observer screwed up writing down the GPS coordinates, the captain did not confirm the observer recorded them correctly.....with everything involved with entering and running a team, money invested etc. etc. seems really silly to have the days catch disqualified over GPS coordinates. So ask the question.....does it matter? You can't fly to the Kenai and back in the time it for weigh-in so of course the fish are caught in Lake Ontario. Volunteers and tournament officials are often also participants and they are privy to these day 1 results. Just make the process simpler and above board....do away with GPS coordinate requirements.

 

Let me play devils advocate here.  I hear what your saying but let me pose this.  Gill-T your on fish in Canada so you spend the money to do it legally.  You go thru the effort to follow the rules.  A competitor gets on fish a half mile over the border and beats you and you know he doesnt have a lic or go thru the proper channels to fish there.  Your cool with getting beat by someone who broke rules but not tourney rules?  How do you prove he was over there?

 

Trust me I understand your frustrations with eyes on the paper work.  I am just poising something that would be hard to prove.  Its not like there is a big line for the untrained observers to see on the water.  Then there is the issue with Observers what if the guy you get doesnt have a passport or an enhanced drivers lic.  Now what are you going to do as a capt you cant go across.  If you have to land in an emergency situation you must have your proper documentation.  

 

Let me say again I am just playing devils advocate and giving you some scenarios.

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There is one thing about no communication that irks me. No communication with who?

During the Oswego pro-am my wife went to visit my daughter whose due date was up. I did turn my phone off , but not happily so.

It might be a good idea to be allowed to receive calls not in any way connected to fishing,position or competition.

The above may very well have been the reason why somebody may or may not have broken the no communication rule. In my opinion, comparable circumstances should be legitimate exceptions to the no communication rules.

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To answer your question Brian.....I would not care if other teams went across the border without proper licenses and documentation because it is the captain's duty to make sure all his/her ducks were in line.  If that captain was stupid enough to not be legal then he/she can suffer the possible consequences at the hands of the Canadian authorities (cavity searches?).....and not make weigh-in.  This is really an issue with the Niagara Pro/Am and the KOTL tournaments, so why all other south shore tournaments would need GPS coordinates defies logic.   Weigh-ins would go quicker with less volunteers needed without the GPS numbers as well.

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There is one thing about no communication that irks me. No communication with who?

During the Oswego pro-am my wife went to visit my daughter whose due date was up. I did turn my phone off , but not happily so.

It might be a good idea to be allowed to receive calls not in any way connected to fishing,position or competition.

The above may very well have been the reason why somebody may or may not have broken the no communication rule. In my opinion, comparable circumstances should be legitimate exceptions to the no communication rules.

 

Giant can of worms with no ability to police what information is coming in on a phone.  Observers should not have to monitor conversations.  GPS coordinates can be texted.  "I will be home after weigh-in honey" could mean I am trolling out front lol.

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