15% ethenol

[spoonfed-1]

Automakers suing EPA over higher ethanol mix gas

WASHINGTON — Automakers and engine manufacturers are suing the Environmental Protection Agency over a plan to allow the sale of gasoline containing 15 percent ethanol.

The Obama administration ruled in October that gas stations could start selling the ethanol blend for vehicles built since the 2007 model year. It's an increase from the current blend of 10 percent ethanol.

In the lawsuit, the trade groups question whether the EPA's approval for E15 fuels for only certain vehicles violates the federal Clean Air Act. They say the engines could be damaged by too much corn-based fuel.

The ethanol industry has said the agency should have allowed the higher blend for more vehicles.

The petition was filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Should sue to get it ALL out, as the whole thing was a sham based on flawed science to begin with. Do we as a country ever learn? Here we go again with the LIE of wind power being a viable form of alternative energy. The proponents keep promoting the untruths that it will reduce the "carbon footprint". The only "footprint" all these cash grabs will reduce is our "tracks" in the world economy. While we continue to shackle our citizens, companies, and our economy overall, the hungry exploding countries like China and India are "full speed ahead". It is so clear that our current admin is absolutely bent on marginalizing this Country, and minimizing our economic power.

The windmill fight is far from over, and the "pushers" have deep pockets.

[spoonfed-1]

Should sue to get it ALL out, as the whole thing was a sham based on flawed science to begin with. Do we as a country ever learn? Here we go again with the LIE of wind power being a viable form of alternative energy. The proponents keep promoting the untruths that it will reduce the "carbon footprint". The only "footprint" all these cash grabs will reduce is our "tracks" in the world economy. While we continue to shackle our citizens, companies, and our economy overall, the hungry exploding countries like China and India are "full speed ahead". It is so clear that our current admin is absolutely bent on marginalizing this Country, and minimizing our economic power.

The windmill fight is far from over, and the "pushers" have deep pockets.

YUP.

[Misty IV]

Should sue to get it ALL out, as the whole thing was a sham based on flawed science to begin with. Do we as a country ever learn? Here we go again with the LIE of wind power being a viable form of alternative energy. The proponents keep promoting the untruths that it will reduce the "carbon footprint". The only "footprint" all these cash grabs will reduce is our "tracks" in the world economy. While we continue to shackle our citizens, companies, and our economy overall, the hungry exploding countries like China and India are "full speed ahead". It is so clear that our current admin is absolutely bent on marginalizing this Country, and minimizing our economic power.

The windmill fight is far from over, and the "pushers" have deep pockets.

Well said!

[jason]

well said vince.....

[Tim Bromund]

+1

Tim

[fish or swim]

Yes save the world with ethanol! Doesn't it sound so nice?

The good news is supply shortages will stop any further increases in ethanol content. Right now about 32-33% of US corn production goes to ethanol production. The best case scenario claims that this amount can be increased by about 50% from its current level. That means using all available acreage, including putting marginal land back into production, some shifting from other crops. It is getting really close to the point were there just wouldn’t be any extra corn left to make more ethanol. Unless they start importing which isn’t a likely option but who knows.

[YodaMage]

Should sue to get it ALL out, as the whole thing was a sham based on flawed science to begin with. Do we as a country ever learn? Here we go again with the LIE of wind power being a viable form of alternative energy. The proponents keep promoting the untruths that it will reduce the "carbon footprint". The only "footprint" all these cash grabs will reduce is our "tracks" in the world economy. While we continue to shackle our citizens, companies, and our economy overall, the hungry exploding countries like China and India are "full speed ahead". It is so clear that our current admin is absolutely bent on marginalizing this Country, and minimizing our economic power.

The windmill fight is far from over, and the "pushers" have deep pockets.

While opinion on the matter varies, Brazil says you are flat wrong.

[YodaMage]

Let me ask the question, since we use India and China, two countries that are becoming toxic wastelands and polluted beyond habitation, what is the right solution? It is easy to punch holes in everything anyone says or does, but trickier to propose workable solutions. Isn't this site devoted to people who utilize our natural resources, sportsmen in fact? Should we go back to doing business when we were like China and India in the early part of last century and just dump everything in the lake? They do over there...

Sorry, I'm not just so quick to condemn ideas which may lead to protecting resources such as the big O so that my children may someday get a chance to enjoy them as I have.

[fish or swim]

USDA USDA USDA USDA USDA USDA USDA

Dec Dec

………….2010/2011 2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/200

Production.12,540….13,110…....12,092…….13,038…......10,535……11,114……..11,807

Ethanol……4,800…….4 ,568…......3,677……..3,026…….....2,115……..1,603……….1,323

Ending Stocks.832…..1,708……...1,673……..1,624……....1,304……..1,967……….2,114

My farmer buddy tells me my numbers are out of date (in my first post) The situation is going downhill in a hurry.

Production is total corn production in millions of bushels.

Ethanol is amount of corn used to make ethanol

Ending stocks are disappearing fast. Look for very high corn prices next summer

[fish or swim]

Let me ask the question, since we use India and China, two countries that are becoming toxic wastelands and polluted beyond habitation, what is the right solution? It is easy to punch holes in everything anyone says or does, but trickier to propose workable solutions. Isn't this site devoted to people who utilize our natural resources, sportsmen in fact? Should we go back to doing business when we were like China and India in the early part of last century and just dump everything in the lake? They do over there...

Sorry, I'm not just so quick to condemn ideas which may lead to protecting resources such as the big O so that my children may someday get a chance to enjoy them as I have.

The problem with ethanol is it uses more fossil fuels to produce it than the amount of energy from the resulting ethanol produced. All of the tractors and trucking, processing the corn etc etc burn fuel, more fuel than the amount of ethanol produced. That is why it requires a government subsidy to function as an industry. And regulations to require it to be put into the gasoline.

It basically moves pollution from cities to the countryside with no net gain.

[Gator]

Yup, ethanol is not the solution, that's for sure. I don't believe in wind power as a viable alternative, either.

Frankly, nuclear power, contained in small reactors with advanced technology, strikes me as being a fantastic alternative. I'm no expert, but the small form factor, ability to contain and effectively manage waste, and relative safety seems to be big +++.

Anybody know where I can get a small reactor or maybe a hydrogen fuel cell (no shortage of water on Lake O) for powering my boat after the Yamaha croaks from intoxication?

[muskybob]

This article was published in 2007

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm

What ever happened to it?

Maybe this will answer the question:

"Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S. Department of Energy and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the discovery and seek research funding."

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

I think you are dead on, Gator. Had some clients this past Summer from Germany, who were very gainfully employed in the Nuclear energy industry. They talked candidly about having associates charged with maintaining Wind turbines. They stated that it is simply understood how toxic the metal dust is they create, and anyone working in or around one wears a mega-Hazmat suit. They wondered why in the world any of these would be put in or near our drinking water!!!

On the other side of the coin, these World energy experts felt strongly that the fad of Windmills was fading in Europe for numerous reasons, and the future of clean and efficient energy there was Nuclear.

[jimski2]

The ethanol in an open vented fuel tank evaporates faster than gasoline. Your fuel usage goes up because the ethanol is now in the atmosphere doing bad things. It dissolves your plastic like spinner beads, Cannon Downrigger Cases, wiring insulation and whatever else. This is just my experience. Empty your fuel tank or it does it by itself.

[Time Out]

I believe Brazil is making ethanol from a grass. While it is food for cows and such, it isn't a food for humans. Mr. Gore in the last week or so has said it was a mistake pushing corn base ethanol so far.

As far as the wind farms go, they cant sell 50% of the power that is going to be generated off the coast of new england because of the extremly high cost. Go figure. A nice new nuke plant would have looked much better.

[Gator]

The best part of those nuke plants used to be the winter fishing in the discharge! I remember breaking ice in past Februarys, pre 9/11, and sitting in the effluent knocking browns, steelies, and landlocks absolutely silly. Just ridiculous #s of fish.

Long gone now. If we set up a zillion mini-nukes all around the country, maybe the terrorists wouldn't be able to concentrate on the existing ones and there'd be some left over for us winter fishermen. Lakeshore communities need power, too.

Of course, I guess you've got to wonder how safe having decentralized power sources that involve uranium would be...not from a meltdown standpoint, which is a non-issue from what I understand, but from a national security standpoint. There's issues with every approach, I suppose. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for good, ole' American ingenuity.

[fish or swim]

This company is working on a new type of deep well drilling techique. They claim (or hope) that they will be able to drill geothermal wells to 30,000 feet. Which makes geothermal possible anywhere in the world. And be cost competitive with any other energy source. So yes good old American ingenuity may save the day.

http://www.potterdrilling.com/

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Thats good news about the advances in geo-thermal. My uncle has been singing it's praises for years. Saw an article recently in the Wall Street Journal where the big money investors are pulling out of Windmills and moving towards natural gas. This is great news, unless of course, you are in NY where they have stopped all the new capturing(de-fracking?). I know some farmers in PA that are getting rich. The USA has 3 times the amount of natural gas as Saudi arabia has oil. Yes, there are a few snags that have to be worked out, but it will happen when the big money invests in it

Yeah, those pre-9/11 days off the Nuke were memorable. Definitely were some winter days in the early 80's when we should NOT have putted down there. We used to throw our anchor up on shore!!! Imagine that today.

[Gator]

You mean those standing four footers that would set up when the wind was right? Yeah, I remember (sigh). Good times.

As for geothermal, that sounds fantastic. I'm going to have to do a bunch of homework, because I don't know anything about the technology yet, but I've heard mainly good things.

"Look what Santa left me...an XF2000 personal core piercing unit! Now we can run our X-mas lights!"

[jimski2]

Mr. Gore said we now have "Global Warming" and we must do as he says. Well 12,000 years ago, Rochester set under 2,000 feet of ice and it started melting then, not now. No human beings lived here then so now it is man's fault for this situation. He should jump into the lake.

[Gator]

Ooh, a non-believer. I love a skeptic! Unfortunately, that argument contains at it's core the idea that man can't alter his environment.

There's no doubt that ice-ages came and went...over the course of thousands of years. It's possible that the documented dramatic fluctuations we've seen over the past fifty years represent the acceleration of a natural process. The only problem with that is: if you're wrong and we keep it up, we're all screwed. If Mr. Gore is wrong, the consequences aren't so dramatic. Given that this is a controversial issue, if I were a betting man, I know where I'd put my money.

Wasn't there a philosopher who made a similar argument with respect to belief in God: if God doesn't exist, then when you die there's nothing left of you. So whether you believe or not is immaterial. But if God does exist and you don't believe, then when you die you go to Hades. Given the potential consequences, he choose to believe.

I'm not comparing Mr. Gore to God. Please. I drive an F150 and I'm the ultimate consumer in a petroleum based economy. I'm just saying...I understand why folks are concerned.

[LongLine]

It started out as “global warming†then it subtly took the name of “climate change.†Now many are saying that we’re approaching a “mini-ice age†as the Gulf flow appears to be slowing down and the east coast & south have been getting record cold/snow/freezes in the last couple years. (Couple years ago el Nino/la Nina were all the rage.)

I wonder if they’re ever going to start looking at the Sun cycles. None of the “climate change†proponents seem to ever mention anything about them. We’ve had some major flares in the last couple years.

Chicken Little likes to walk in the woods. She likes to look at the trees. She likes to smell the flowers. She likes to listen to the birds singing.

One day while she is walking something hits the top of her little head.

- My, oh, my, the sky is falling. I must run and tell the lion about it, - says Chicken Little and begins to run.

She runs and runs. By and by she meets the hen.

- Where are you going? - asks the hen.

- Oh, Henny Penny, the sky is falling and I am going to the lion to tell him about it.

- How do you know it? - asks Henny Penny.

- It hit me on the head, so I know it must be so, - says Chicken Little.

- Let me go with you! - says Henny Penny. - Run, run.

So the two run and run until they meet Ducky Lucky.

- The sky is falling, - says Henny Penny. - We are going to the lion to tell him about it.

- How do you know that? - asks Ducky Lucky.

- It hit Chicken Little on the head, - says Henny Penny.

- May I come with you? - asks Ducky Lucky.

- Come, - says Henny Penny.

So all three of them run on and on until they meet Foxey Loxey.

- Where are you going? - asks Foxey Loxey.

- The sky is falling and we are going to the lion to tell him about it, - says Ducky Lucky.

- Do you know where he lives? - asks the fox.

- I don't, - says Chicken Little.

- I don't, - says Henny Penny.

- I don't, - says Ducky Lucky.

- I do, - says Foxey Loxey. - Come with me and I can show you the way.

He walks on and on until he comes to his den.

- Come right in, - says Foxey Loxey.

They all go in, but they never, never come out again.

Hades must be awful crowded with all the non-Christians down there.

Ever wonder how oil is initially produced? Most say it only comes from decaying fossils. Ask yourself how did all the fossils in the world end up in those particular places? Especially in places like the Gulf where that big asteroid landed & drastically altered life on earth?

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[rolmops]

Good heavens Tom,whatever it is you smoked,I want some too!!

[Tim Bromund]

It's amazing how much some people want to believe the sky is falling and refuse to even consider the possibility that it is not.

Must be a dreadful way to live IMO.

Tim