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Finders Keepers

Largest Pike this winter?

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Good question, however there are already do many tournaments happening all over the state, many of which are not C&R, that those fish could be used for this tournament. Do you really think our event is going to take that many more fish than what is already being taken annually? I really don't think so.

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I am with larry on this topic I fish coneus at least  alot and over the years have seen the quality of the pike decrease

the average size is down I think there is a call to increase the size limit on the harvest

Just out of a ,point of interest what is the adminstration fee verses payout and if there is where is this money allocated

As with muskie touraments I beleve it goes to bait fish funds ect.

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Chas0218, Walleyes are stocked and take a short number of years to get to maturity on Lake Ontario.Northern Pike be it inland, rivers or Great Lakes are not stocked on any regular basis and take many years and many year classes to get a few Northern Pike over 45" and up!We're talking about two different types of fish here, one replenishes itself very good and is also stocked, the other is trying to survive but is getting thinned down to hammer handles only in a lot of fisheries because of most of the bigger fish not being released, kill tournaments will only make it worse.Walleyes I put back the larger ones for spawning and keep the 2 to 4 lbers to eat, if northern pike fishermen that eat them did the same eat the smaller ones that taste better and released the bigger ones we would have trophy fisheries and good returning year classes to cull from in the future, keeping a world class fishery!

Edited by mostlymuskies

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Sometimes I can get carried away when it comes to protecting our fisheries, but I will continue tell it as I see it! I will not fish this Tournament because of the catch & kill northern pike category and will recommend others not to support it as well until it changes to Catch & Release! I have no problem telling clients they can't keep a muskie over 50"+ on my charters, that is what I believe in!

Capt Larry D Jones

E.C.F.A.B. Member

E.C.F.S.C. Director

E.l.E.C.B.A. Pres.

NY Muskies 69 Regional Rep.

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I am with larry on this topic I fish coneus at least  alot and over the years have seen the quality of the pike decrease

the average size is down I think there is a call to increase the size limit on the harvest

Just out of a ,point of interest what is the adminstration fee verses payout and if there is where is this money allocated

As with muskie touraments I beleve it goes to bait fish funds ect.

This event will cost just over $15k to set-up and run, provided nothing major comes up. The prize distribution/money allocation is approximately 75% payback, 10% back into the fishery or future youth events, and 15% profit to the corporation for the 1,000's of hours we put into running this event (percentages vary slightly to help make the book keeping easier and also take the costs into consideration). 

 

Again, I do appreciate the concern and it is taken on our end with high regard/priority. However, with several thousand dollars in advertising/printing/signage/banners/etc. and anglers already signed up, we are not going to change anything for this year. We will look into possible solutions for next year's event, and welcome all suggestions.

Edited by Finders Keepers

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Finders Keepers, I can understand that you have already committed to the Tournament the way you have it setup this year and it would be costly and difficult to change it for this year! So the only action that I will take is to encourage those that I can not to sign up if they feel the way I do about the kill rule for Northern Pike.But myself and many others want to see a change to catch & release of Northern Pike for 2016 Tournament.In the meantime I'm going to push for a Resolution to make any Permit issued by the NYSDEC for a Fishing Tournament for Muskie, Tiger Muskie & Northern Pike be for Catch & Release Only, I will do this through the Federations of Sportsmen's Club's to the NY Conservation Council asking for a Regulation Change to the NYSDEC Fishing Regulations / Fishing Tournament Permits!

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Agreed. Conesus lake has multiple pike tournaments every winter where all pike are kept, yet it remains one of the best pike lakes in the state.

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I hate to say it but Conesus is nothing like the pike fishery it used to be. 17 lb.ers would win the derby's twenty years ago, now, ten and eleven pounders are more the norm. Some of the spring tourney's have bigger winning Walleyes than Northerns!

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Good luck with that - with the abundance of pike I just don't see it happening. Musky, yes, pike, no.

We are not talking about changing Northern Pike to Catch & Release for the General Fishing Regulations, Only for Fishing Tournament Permits mandatory issued by the NYSDEC when over 20 fishermen are fishing in a Tournament.There is the possibility of making this change to specific waters only as well, I will get a meeting setup with the NYDEC Warm Water Division in Albany and see what direction we need to go!While there this would be a good time to discuss raising the size limit to 30" (or slot limit of 25 to 35" anything lower or higher must go back)and lowering the creel limit to (2) Two per day for some waters of NY state.Do not under estimate use Esox fishermen, we have been able to get the NYDEC to see our way on changes; Great Lakes Muskie 54" size limit and Tiger Muskie Season set back to 3rd Saturday in June to match Muskie Season the 3rd Saturday in June.Inland we have gotten the size limit raised to 40" for Muskie and the starting date changed to the Last Saturday in May from the 3rd Saturday in June.Anything is possible when you go through the right avenues for change! It also helps with the muskie clubs having a great working relationship with the NYDEC! Edited by mostlymuskies

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Tim did you ever think of doing it like the red fish tournaments (you need 2 pike a day to go to the weigh station and slot 30 inches to 35 inches total weight of 2 fish )

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Tim did you ever think of doing it like the red fish tournaments (you need 2 pike a day to go to the weigh station and slot 30 inches to 35 inches total weight of 2 fish )

Interesting concept, I haven't heard of that before. Some would still argue though since the fish are still being kept. Good idea though and something we can put on the discussion table for next year!

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I got a pm from this thread that the site won't let me respond to. I respond here:"good idea,let me know if i can help". My e mail is [email protected] Looks like i riled up some animosity. That was not my intention. I just love all esox and can't stand seeing them killed. A 20 pound northern in new york is a rare and precious resource. Killing them for money and a trophy your children will throw out is wrong.

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Instead of trying to ruin pike tournaments across the state and bring it in front of the NYS Conservation Council wouldn't it be a better idea to bring to the conservation council why the state doesn't raise Pike/Musky for stocking But instead they are wasting money raising sturgeon and stocking a fish you can't legally fish for. Just my 2 cents

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This is a great discussion.....This is the kind of back and fourth needed to build anything. Issues, problems, differences, opinions, solutions out there and resolved like real and powerful living things. Bringing awareness and developing solutions with passion and concern without denigration, ridicule, name calling and such. Way to go...... :)    :yes: 

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Thank you Panfisher! I think we have the same goals in mind: make this event big while at the same time preserving the fishery. Discussion is good and I think we can accomplish both as we move forward. It will take further discussions, research, and massaging the event structure, but progress will be made.

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The NYDEC does raise Northern Pike, Tiger Muskie & Muskie.They actually have one of the best Purebred Muskie Stocking Programs in the world.The problem with Northern Pike, Tiger Muskies & Muskies is they take many years to get to maturity, 20 to 30 years.One out of a thousand stocked actually makes it to 40" and that is in a water where catch & release practices are the norm.So when tournaments are allowed to kill these fish and it is the biggest fish that upper year class is being whiped out and will take many years for more fish to get to that size.Now put into that prospective Northern Pike they do not stock them on a regular basis so when you take the big ones all out of a fishery and allow 5 fish creel limit some waters will never recover.The bigger Northern Pike also control the overall population of small Northern Pike,so when the bigger ones are removed you end up with large numbers of smaller fish and they can be stunted in growth and you end up with an abundance of hammer handles!This is why a slot limit size of 25" to 35" being caught will assure there are small class fish & big class fish remaining to have a good fishery.

Edited by mostlymuskies

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The largest Pike and Crappie might be caught on a private lake called Flavia, Cattaragus County NY. When and if we go fat crappie to 18 inches over two pounds and last year several pike in the mid 40 inch range one wieghed in at 22lbs in just one day.

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No public ice fishing but does allow fishing from shore.

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As mentioned, Conesus is NOT the quality pike fishery that was hinted at.  Looking at my log, 23 trips on the hardwater last season, with premier bait (huge golden shiners and sucker chubs, which I traveled FAR to aquire) and professional-level equipment and tactics produced a total of 15 pike for me last season.  Of those 15 fish, there was one fish over 40 inches.  My average size was 34 inches.  This is my personal stupid fish theory but as one of the more experienced Conesus fisherman, I dare say that this is no longer one of the premier pike fisheries in the state.  I see a huge problem with the harvest on this like of the 24-36 inch northern.  We need to impose a slot limit and see if that makes a difference.  Thank you very much to the more experienced fisherman who have pointed this out in this thread, I have been sick about this.

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I'm all for catch and release but I won't get into that.

What kind of figure does the photo analysis software have?

You mentioned some large #'s as far as prizes/entries, I feel the club/organization should definitely be reimbursed for what they put into.

With that being said, would it make sense to tack on the extra $___ for the software as an expense for future tournies?

With the catch and release option it makes the tourney seem more "friendly" for the esox and does not limit those who like to keep the fish.

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One thing that may be considered is limiting the waters where contestants may fish from. Lake Ontario trout and salmon derby.....Seneca Lake lake trout contests....etc. Waters where the fisheries have established and known populations. This may be too late for this season's event.....This does make it rather tough to decide which waters would be suitable. Lots of observation and real in depth knowledge of pike living environments in said waters is not as easy as with trout and salmon waters with the attention salmonids receive. Maybe just a handful of places around the state. I don't know, but with pike being slow growers in the wild (news to me), limits on all kinds of aspects of the tournament in order to manage the fishery for the long hall without damage may make the idea of a large money value event, like the above salmonid events, slow to happen until we know what we are doing. Not saying it cannot be done. One of the appealing things about pike is their relative "wildness" as compared to salmonids in put and take waters. It seems that real Great Northern Pike (I like those old school names  ;)) "factories" should be identified and picked as healthy enough environments for such fishing events.....with serious rules of play. Bottom line here is if populations are adversely harmed, a tournament like this would be short lived. Perhaps maybe a serious look at contests in the "old world" (if they exist....I don't know) where pike are bigger, older and often more highly regarded for modelling and guidance.

Edited by panfisher

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Wasn't going to comment on this thread but I have noticed in my short time fishing conesus that the quality of Pike has diminished and there does seem to be an occasional 10-15lbr mixed in with a whole lot of 24-30 inch fish.  This can be validated by watching the run in the spring, which I highly recommend as a family trip for everyone.

 

Tournies aren't for me (catch and release or keep and kill) and that is all I will say about that. However, As great the numbers are for Pike, weren't the numbers great for musky before all of the tournies wiped them out?  I should say I wasn't there so I can only infer from the numerous literature of the great tournaments 50 + years ago.  I am ok with the harvest as long as the system has the resources to replenish it.  Larry seems to think it does not and I have to agree with him.  Not because I know but because I think he knows. 

 

To me it is simple thermodynamics.  What comes into the box has to replace what is leaving the box.  Frackers down here take water out of our river system and they have to be careful how much they take out and what part of the river they remove it from.  If they take too much from one spot the river will go flat and it will stress the system.  If people harvest fish from Conesus and only Conesus, it may be problmatic for the fishery, however, there are numerous places to catch northerns.  Where people decide to do this may be more of an issue.  I harvest fish from the river but I am always conscious not to over harvest in one area and I always take into account how the bait looks and how much fat the fish have.  If I was in a tourny, I probably wouldn't care about next year or the year after as long as I had an opportunity to be on the "board".  To summarize, I aree with the concern.  I also believe tournies are wanted by a large population.  Balance...

 

First learn stand...then learn fly... nature's rule.. Daniel-san,  not mine.   Better learn balance...balance is key. Balance good...everything good. Balance bad...better pack up and go home. 

 

Miyagi:  Go, find balance!

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