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Ok this may be a dumb question, but I have to ask.  What is meant by the lake turning over? 

I have heard this phrase several times in reference to Seneca but I assume it applies to other Finger Lakes as well. 

Any help on what it means and what the impact to the fishing is would be appreciated. 

 

Thanks

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The temps onshore go from warm to cold. The warm onshore water is now out deep and the cold water is onshore.
Upwelling.


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no question you ask is dumb. I am 64yrs old and have been trolling for trout since I was probably about 5 yrs old and I learn something every time I fish. whaler1 answered your question correctly.

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Posted (edited)

It happens in many if not most lakes and seems most prominent in larger lakes. It is a complex relationship between water temperatures, ambient air temperature, wind (direction and velocity), and underwater current. It happens when dense water descends to bottom pushing the bottom water upward (creating an inversion) and the wind distributes that particular less dense water either shoreward or out away from shore. Sometimes fishing is good where the boundary of where the warm and colder water meet or intersect.  I am not a scientist  but this is my understanding of it.

Edited by Sk8man
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Thanks for the replies.  

 

So it appears that the water temp went from about 74 to 64 in 3 days.  is that an indication that the lake is turning over?  

This was at 6' deep.   from the USGS platform near Geneva. 

 

image.thumb.png.f480df99e3fe07f2a38403055ec17f36.png

 

same time frame at 97 feet.  

 

image.thumb.png.329a0eb3ced01ca53ee7ccc874764573.png

 

 

Here is the link to the USGS Website.

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/ny/nwis/uv/?site_no=425027076564401&PARAmeter_cd=00400,00095,00010,90860,00300,63680,62361,99137

 

 

 

 

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I think you'll find that you'll be able to anticipate the temp changes at times on the finger lakes when there is a sustained north or south wind. Say if the wind is out of the north for a day or two the warmer surface water will be pushed  south and colder water from below will replace the surface void on the north end. Water will be most dense at about 38 degrees.  Anything colder or warmer will be less dense and rise absent of any other forces in the water columns. Watch the weather trends a couple days in advance of were you are going to fish if fishing surface water temp is your thing.  Using a down Speed & Temp probe will be more helpful for subsurface temp and a faster way to target specific temperatures.

 

Now after that just grab your tackle and go fishing.:smile:

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Very interesting thanks I’ll be paying more attention to trends in wind speed. It would be nice to have a down temp reader

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Posted (edited)

Yes, you need to look at the wind ... that's what causes it.  Basically when wind pushes all the hot water on the surface from one side of the lake to the other, and that water hits a shore ... it needs to displace water ... so basically the colder water on the bottom is pushed out deeper by the hotter water being pushed by the wind towards the shore.  That cold water then moves towards the opposite shore that is losing hot water, and displaces it ... which causes the turn over.

Edited by TyeeTanic
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Yes, you need to look at the wind ... that's what causes it.  Basically when wind pushes all the hot water on the surface from one side of the lake to the other, and that water hits a shore ... it needs to displace water ... so basically the colder water on the bottom is pushes out deeper by the hotter water being pushed by the wind towards a shore.  That cold water then moves towards the shore that is losing hot water, and displaces it ... which causes the turn over.

The smaller lakes are very much influenced by this. As the wind pushes the top layer one way, it also creates a current deeper down in the opposite direction in order to replace the water that has been pushed away. That is important when you fish near a point. The fish will find a place where this current will go over their head, usually on the lee side of the top of the point and wait for food carried in this current. So make sure that your presentation is deep and moves in the opposite direction of the wind.

 

 

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I think two different phenomenon are being confused in this discussion: "Upwelling" vs "Turnover". Upwelling is quite evident on Lake Ontario, where as an example, a strong persistent southerly wind can push warm upper depth water offshore, to be replaced by cold water from greater depths. This also occurs in the Finger Lakes when strong North or South wind patterns prevail, just not as dramatic. The term "Turnover" is usually applied to lake water that is heating rapidly in late Spring, early Summer. As the warmer waters reach greater depths, there is a mixing or "turnover" of water that will precede stratification, thermocline formation. This happens quite prominently in our Finger Lakes. I am most familiar with the Canandaigua Lake cycle: by mid-June the "turnover" is apparent, most noticeable as decomposing fish (on the cold bottom) are elevated to the surface as decompostion/gasing accelerate due to warming/mixing/ turnover. A similar process occurs in the Fall... as surface/upper water cools, their density increases and begins to sink/mix with lower layers of water. For Canandaigua Lake, this process usually begins in early October, pushing the thermocline deeper as the processing continues. You may see nearly uniform temperature (~60 degrees) until depths of ~80 feet before a temperature break. This will continue until the water temperature reaches the mid to lower 50 degree range, when the fall mixing,"Turnover" completes and the thermocline disappears. This normally occurs for Canandaigua by late October. A likely better explanation: https://www.waterontheweb.org/under/lakeecology/05_stratification.html  

turnover.png

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After reading the article it makes me wonder if the 600 plus depths in parts of Seneca Lake never or rarely turnover......

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12 minutes ago, Reel Doc said:

After reading the article it makes me wonder if the 600 plus depths in parts of Seneca Lake never or rarely turnover......

In the larger Finger Lakes, there is minimal to no mixing below ~100'-120' in depth. The warming/mixing/turnover does not occur, with those depths and below remaining at 39 degrees, water's greatest density. Individuals who drown in waters of 120'+ rarely surface due to very slow decomposition and no mixing.

 

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On 7/2/2020 at 9:37 PM, salmoseine said:

In the larger Finger Lakes, there is minimal to no mixing below ~100'-120' in depth. The warming/mixing/turnover does not occur, with those depths and below remaining at 39 degrees, water's greatest density. Individuals who drown in waters of 120'+ rarely surface due to very slow decomposition and no mixing.

 

So does bait spend time down there.....probably not so bigger fish don't have much reason to be down there either.  We need a poll of Cayuga and Seneca fisherman.  What's your best guesstimate of the deepest you had a line that caught a fish?  Ive had 600 copper out and a rigger down 110 which with blowback is probably less than 100.  Anyone go below 120 and catch fish??

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Posted (edited)

Laker marked by himself at 270 near the  barge on Seneca came up after the spoon  on the finder to about 240 where my lowest spoon was. Thought it would be a huge one...turned out to be about 6 lbs. I have seen them suspended at well over 300 ft on Seneca.

Edited by Sk8man

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The smaller lakes are very much influenced by this. As the wind pushes the top layer one way, it also creates a current deeper down in the opposite direction in order to replace the water that has been pushed away. That is important when you fish near a point. The fish will find a place where this current will go over their head, usually on the lee side of the top of the point and wait for food carried in this current. So make sure that your presentation is deep and moves in the opposite direction of the wind.
 
 
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Keuka 09:50..... surface is 74.5.....114 fow


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