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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, orangediablo said:

 

The ONLY way it prevents infection is if they are infected, contagious, AND it's an N95 mask.  Any lesser mask won't stop the virus.  It doesn't protect anyone from getting it.

still need that 6' or greater distance

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Edited by rougarou

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I can understand that, but the mask is irrelevant unless contagious.  If you're contagious, you shouldn't be out.

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To me I think the mask is a "Cosmetic Comfort" as if to say "I do not want to spread anything to anyone"....Problem is....Am I admitting I have the virus even though I dont.....Am I guilty before being proved innocent? If you understand what the masks are designed to do going both ways its an interesting psychological game of life lol.  Wait till we go to the grocery store and start looking at the eyes behind the mask of others lol....

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I'm going to write on my 'mask', 'All your masks don't work'  lol

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  NY isn't just NYC draconian measures are not warranted state wide....crap I can drive to 3 states and 2 Canadian provinces quicker than I can to NYC ...I'm sorry we can't throw the baby out this the bath water...Check out what Sweden is doing their stats are no different than ours being locked down

Nope. You won’t be driving to ANY Canadian provinces any time soon. You can drive to 3 states , but you shouldn’t. This virus is new. It’s a constantly changing scenario. Nobody has EVER dealt with something like this too soon to tell if Sweden’s answer is the right one. We are erring on the side of caution I’m all in on that


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Keeo in mind the Sweedish Population is not the United States Population. Because of their size they can control things that truly fit their lifestyles. We over here are spoiled lol

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5 minutes ago, chinook35 said:


Nobody has EVER dealt with something like this.


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You must have forgotten about H1N1

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14 hours ago, bandrus1 said:

Yea it's the tenth amendment

 

You should read it

 

In the interest of civil discussion, and because I am interested in learning more from others on this topic...

 

The tenth amendment declares that powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

A state can legalize marijuana, etc.  However, Federal law supercedes state law and the federal government controls matters that cross state lines such as interstate commerce.  For example, even if marijuanna is legal in Colorado, you cannot sell or transport it across state lines.

 

Obama passed a law that required a new healthcare tax be withheld by employers in all states.  Some states elected not to set up a healthcare exchange.  But I am not aware of any state declaring that "businesses in our state will not be paying that tax.  Because we do not have a king, ...and the tenth amendment." 

 

Now lets be clear, Trump is often ridiculous.  He has a well documented history of going off script and derailing a rational policy discussion with some random claim or statement.  With that, he should not be doing a two hour daily briefing.  Especially one that fields a dozen loaded hypothetical questions from a media with a clear ideological purpose.  No objective person can watch and honestly say that the reporters in attendance represent an independent media.  Anyway, back to the point, using the phrase ultimate authority is ridiculous and it fairly opened the door to criticism from everyone with a brain. 

 

That said, we can only speculate on what he meant.  Maybe he meant that the economy is interstate and therefore within the jurisdiction of the federal government?  What if California decided to never reopen?  Could the president make an executive order forcing them to permit private businesses to operate?  Could congress pass a law that prohibits states from being mini socialist republics?  Maybe he meant the constitution grants the president emergency powers?  Abraham Lincoln used emergency powers to suspend habeas corpus. Roosevelt invoked emergency powers when he ordered West Coast Japanese Americans be sent to camps during World War II.  Truman declared the use of emergency powers when he nationalized private steel mills during the Korean War.

 

Anyway, the president might be a headache for you.  But he is in charge, and this team is not doing a bad job on this crisis frankly.  So, if he said something like, "look, if governors do something crazy like declare vape shops essential but close down marinas... or if they don't implement social distancing guidelines, masks etc. and reopen when their state meets testing requirements and new cases/hospitalizations have fallen,... well, then I might consider an emergency executive order that pressures that state into making a decision between challenging emergency powers in court, or returning some freedom to its citizens."  Is that absolute power, no.  But would it have made the point?

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Basically that is what trump said if they dont do it in accordance to what the task force has put together they will push back....But he is giving control to the states which is the way it should be.  To me this puts the pressure on the Governors to basically open their states....but keep a virus in check. A virus nobody really is familiar with yet...Like Arkansas that guys gonna be one of the first to open up, he was basically saying that last week. Hell he didnt even put a stay at home order in the state....Now if he does like the plan says and cases break out his political career will be shot. If not hes a hero.....

I think most logical people feel we are no where near ready to reopen anything lol.

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You must have forgotten about H1N1

I hear u on H1N1 there are major differences between that and Covid. Swine flu was an influenza. There was some immunity to the swine flu. Covid is not an influenza , we have no immunity to this virus This one has killed 146000 people ( at least ) worldwide in a few weeks. Swine flu killed 171000 worldwide in a year. You do the math I’m no expert , but I’m going to follow the guidelines of the people who are experts


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Anyone see Cuomo wear a mask yet ? It would be nice to see he practice what he preachs.
Most masks I see people wearing don't even know what they are doing with them. They don't have them on right , can't forget your nose . They touch the mask . ...

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2 minutes ago, chinook35 said:


I hear u on H1N1 there are major differences between that and Covid. Swine flu was an influenza. There was some immunity to the swine flu. Covid is not an influenza , we have no immunity to this virus This one has killed 146000 people ( at least ) worldwide in a few weeks. Swine flu killed 171000 worldwide in a year. You do the math I’m no expert , but I’m going to follow the guidelines of the people who are experts


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We had no immunity to H1N1 either, which is why it infected nearly 25% of the world's population.  I don't remember being under quarantine for that pandemic.  Do you?  Unfortunately, we may never know the ACTUAL mortality rate since we can be infected without any symptoms.  Currently, we are still under 2.3 million reported cases worldwide, but we all know the number is quite a bit higher, due to the previous statement.

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45 minutes ago, orangediablo said:

I can understand that, but the mask is irrelevant unless contagious.  If you're contagious, you shouldn't be out.

Since you clearly have expertise in epidimiology could you inform the rest of us how we are supposed to know if we are contagious.  I'm just a fisherman and here I thought the problem was asymptomatic transmission.  

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I can understand that, but the mask is irrelevant unless contagious.  If you're contagious, you shouldn't be out.
I guess the concern is that some folks are contagious and feel fine. Why stay home if you think you are fine A face cover will decrease the distance a breath, sneeze cough or whatever will travel by velocity reduction. Yes not protecting the individual but keeping the unknown carrier from spreading as far. Whatever anyones thought is....if putting something over my face loosens things up, ok fine. I dont like looking at most of the ugly folks in this world anyway and im no gem either

Even before covid there were (and still are) a bunch of no sneeze covering no hand washing dirty bastards out there. At least thats a lite better these days.

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52 minutes ago, orangediablo said:

I can understand that, but the mask is irrelevant unless contagious.  If you're contagious, you shouldn't be out.

That is true except for the fact that you can be contagious for days without showing symptoms.  

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4 minutes ago, justtracytrolling said:

Since you clearly have expertise in epidimiology could you inform the rest of us how we are supposed to know if we are contagious.  I'm just a fisherman and here I thought the problem was asymptomatic transmission.  

Where did I say I was an expert?  But if you contracted covid and are asymptomatic, what would compel you to get tested for it?

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7 minutes ago, Fat Trout said:

I guess the concern is that some folks are contagious and feel fine. Why stay home if you think you are fine A face cover will decrease the distance a breath, sneeze cough or whatever will travel by velocity reduction. Yes not protecting the individual but keeping the unknown carrier from spreading as far. Whatever anyones thought is....if putting something over my face loosens things up, ok fine. I dont like looking at most of the ugly folks in this world anyway and im no gem either

Even before covid there were (and still are) a bunch of no sneeze covering no hand washing dirty bastards out there. At least thats a lite better these days.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Lake Ontario United mobile app
 

 

Totally agree with this, but I think people are being sent the wrong message and that's what I have a problem with.  If the only way I can be on a boat and fish is with something over my mouth, count me it.  It'll definitely slow my ass from eating all the munchies on board

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52 minutes ago, chinook35 said:


Nope. You won’t be driving to ANY Canadian provinces any time soon. You can drive to 3 states , but you shouldn’t. This virus is new. It’s a constantly changing scenario. Nobody has EVER dealt with something like this too soon to tell if Sweden’s answer is the right one. We are erring on the side of caution I’m all in on that


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It's a point I'm making NYC is a different world from most of NYS and far enough away that other parts of NY should be managed by county isn't that what was being preached micro managed and county by county....I for one am long tired of being painted with the scummy corrupt free loading NYC brush  

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10 minutes ago, orangediablo said:

Where did I say I was an expert?  But if you contracted covid and are asymptomatic, what would compel you to get tested for it?

You gave advice the mask is irrelevant.  I would think because you won't get tested without symptoms we should all wear the masks in case we are asymptomatic.  

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then why the 6ft rule?  why not wear the masks anytime you are around people?  False security.

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So the cloth masks should be washed every time they are used and the n95 and surgical masks should be thrown out after they're worn correct? 

I just hope some of the people that I used to register at the PCP and walk-in have started taking a shower more than once every ten days. 

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Or maybe the twilight zone IMG_1084.JPG


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mrclean said:

I think most logical people feel we are no where near ready to reopen anything lol.

 

I 100% agree with that statement.  And my next comments are not meant to be argumentative.  My intent is just to offer a view that some currently share.

 

Most logical people would agree that Fair Haven is not Manhattan.  This is a novel virus and we should take extreme precautions.  But unless there is a subway in Fair Haven that I don't know about, we don't really know if sheltering in place presents a significant increase in safety to the non-high risk population over running out to get milk and then washing your hands, working a job at an employer that can maintain 6-feet of social distance, or visiting a dock at a marina to take your boat out.  Because some feel that regardless of the mitigation steps, this virus will not be eliminated.  New cases will persist until we reach herd immunity.  So, with that, the high-risk population should continue to take every extreme precaution.  But that is not 100% of the population. 

 

The quarantine was to "flatten the curve" so we did not overwhelm the healthcare system.  To buy time until treatments could be identified, and to get us closer to potential approval of a vaccine next year. That is an absolute necessity in Manhattan where they have 8 million people and 2000 icu beds.  In Fair Haven, is there currently a risk of overwhelming the healthcare system?  Regardless, the quarantine was never intended to outlast the virus. 

 

But that has changed.  The case is now being made that we can not safely reopen until something specific happens.  Well, the growth of new cases in the US, and in NY, have slowed.  Testing is available.  Yes there may be a bottleneck in testing related to labor.  So solve that.  But hospitals have the ability to run tests in 45 minutes.  Antibody testing.  One company has already brought this to market and is rolling it out and other companies are close behind with theirs.  This might be everywhere next week, or by May 1.  It might face the same issue as current testing.  But it will be available.  Treatments, well, the remdesivir studies certainly deserve attention.  One study saw 123 of 125 critical patients improve in 6-10 days, people coming off ventilators after 1-day, etc. 

 

So you already have testing, and antibody testing is ramping up, and treatments may already exist for extreme cases.  You have to know that this isn't going away in 3-months.  So do you stay closed until you see 0 new cases?  Do you wait until next spring?  Aug?  Or do you allow private businesses to follow guidelines and open May 1, or May 15, while advising the high-risk population to continue to take extreme precautions?

 

Right now, I would be surprised if NY extends past May 15.  For one, hospitals are suffering significant financial losses.  They make most of their money on elective surgeries and preventative procedures, and those have been suspended by the state.  The last thing the governor is going to want to see is thousands of hospital layoffs in the midst of a medical crisis.  So he can waive a magic wand and arbitrarily decide to start permitting elective procedures.  But they have to understand that until they lift the shut down many people aren't going out.  So by declaring the May 15 target, they might be floating the idea publicly that they need to weigh the risk of extreme financial distress against the risk of infection.

Edited by slouiscar

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1 hour ago, mrclean said:



I think most logical people feel we are no where near ready to reopen anything lol.

Do you mean everywhere or just NYS?  I think it will depend entirely on location plus ability to follow the new guidelines which I feel make sense but have to be locally rationalized to ensure compliance is possible and only go stage by stage from there.  By location I mean NYS vs lets say Wyoming.  However there is the difference between Rural Upstate NY and NYC.  That  should ultimately be considered too (separately).  Not yet I would agree until this whole plan can be sorted out  no disagreement.  However we are too big a country to be one size fits all so I will disagree there if you say most logical  people think the whole country must wait until every place including lets say.... NYC is ready.

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1 hour ago, orangediablo said:

 

Totally agree with this, but I think people are being sent the wrong message and that's what I have a problem with.  If the only way I can be on a boat and fish is with something over my mouth, count me it.  It'll definitely slow my ass from eating all the munchies on board

Fill the mask with munchies!:nod:

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