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Posted (edited)

Went out first light . Set right up over bait and fish  at 70. . Two Gary D rigs at 45 and 60 . 60 was first to go with about 12# king . 

In all for morning was 4 hits with one landed . Fish shut Down after first hr or so . 

Broke off yet another Flouro leader at boatside with a nice teen king. 

 

Have I mentioned that I hate that stuff ?That makes 3 times . 

 

Bassin next weekend then out comes the big boat .  

Edited by HB2

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I use 20# flouro, n swear by it.. try different knots maybe. Where are your breaks happening?.. gotta slobber up your knots before cinching.... I had alot of knot issues before dialing it in ..


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Its either your knots, the particular brand/type of flourocarbon or combination of how hard you fight the fish and how heavy your rod is. I use seguar blue label fluoro when > 10# and i can count one hand the number of fish i have broken off in the last 10 yrs in the lake including guests i bring out. Look into better knots, wet the knot before you cinch it down. Check the leader periodically for knicks and if you gave it a good beating with a few fish consider retying the knots.

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Your having a user error issue. I use 20# on my drivers with no snubber running spoons and with the zero stretch of the wire, I haven't had 1 customer break one off unless it was teeth. About 50% of them bring a fish in on wire correctly too. I know your frustrated, but if your using 20+# and breaking fish off, your in the major minority if that makes any sense...lol
I'd gladly show you what I use if that would help.

Silverfoxcharters.net

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Does the infamous Gary rig use crimps?

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You have broke off more in one season than I have in the past ten year combined. It has to be something you are doing.


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I thought the same thing. I usually get bent hooks if I lose fish hardly ever break off. If it goes in the fishes mouth use Fluoro if not I use mono. What I was taught and it works for me. Gamma or Blood run is all I run for both fluro and mono


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I use 17#Stren.  

 

This is what I use for my 25 ft tippet from my 30 # to the swivel. No problems at all 

I use 8# vanish on my Crankbait  spinning rod ,no problems . 

 

I use the same 17#  for the bait heads . It breaks just before or at the baithead . 

 4 breaks in 2 weekends and lost 3 bait heads . Never considered it might be A biteoff as I have had to ta ke the hook out of the throat of a few fish and maybe they use the head as leverage . No crimps . 

 

I don't think it can take the shock in that 

4 ft section   . 

I tie a Snell knot and yes,  I take my time tying the knot . And wet it . 

 

All I know is I fish a lot , more than most 

And catch a lot of big fish on 4# mono . 

When I use Flouro as tippet material .  , I have problems .be it this , fly fishing tippet.   Float / jig ,  or braid tippet for bass. 

 

I rarely break off trolling . 

 

I am going to try the Blue label and tie some 20#  mono and compare .   

 

Flouro all has the same properties , which are all documented in various tests . 

 

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I use 17#Stren.  
 
This is what I use for my 25 ft tippet from my 30 # to the swivel. No problems at all 
I use 8# vanish on my Crankbait  spinning rod ,no problems . 
 
I use the same 17#  for the bait heads . It breaks just before or at the baithead . 
 4 breaks in 2 weekends and lost 3 bait heads . Never considered it might be A biteoff as I have had to ta ke the hook out of the throat of a few fish and maybe they use the head as leverage . No crimps . 
 
I don't think it can take the shock in that 
4 ft section   . 
I tie a Snell knot and yes,  I take my time tying the knot . And wet it . 
 
All I know is I fish a lot , more than most 
And catch a lot of big fish on 4# mono . 
When I use Flouro as tippet material .  , I have problems .be it this , fly fishing tippet.   Float / jig ,  or braid tippet for bass. 
 
I rarely break off trolling . 
 
I am going to try the Blue label and tie some 20#  mono and compare .   
 
Flouro all has the same properties , which are all documented in various tests . 
 

Then why are none of us who have chimed in having the same issue ??


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My first year fishing Salmon, I was using 15 # line for tippets. After losing about $100 worth of gear, I began using minimum 20 lb and usually 30 lb leaders, all flourocarben, and very few breakoffs now. I stay away from p-line. No luck at all with it.

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Back in the day  , pre flea  , I ,and a lot of guys used 12# and 15# pink Ande or Trilene XT or Big game   , and almost NEVER ,broke off . Pulled dodgers with the 15 . And the fish were bigger . 

 

So why does the   Flouro to my baithead or My fly rod tippet etc of the same # test as the mono or heavier  break way easier than mono ? 

 

A guy on here said he had a hard time landing stream fish on 3.6 #  . That's not much less than the 4 I use most of the time with no problems . So why is that ? 

 

Mono is way more durable than Flouro . 

 

Flouro is more abrasion resistant than mono . But once it  abraides it is way weaker.  Kind of like a chip in your windshield . 

Maybe the fish I had break off swallowed the hook and the action of the line scraping over it's teeth compromised it . Or at least a,few,of them . I'm not above tying a,bad knot , but not all of them . And I know how to play a fish . 

 

The stuff just fishes different IMO . And I don't like it . The only reason to use it is because it is invisible . 

 

 

 

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I wonder if it’s rubbing on the edge of the bait head and getting damaged. I’ve never had one break but I’m running 40# fluoro to the head.


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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, HB2 said:

I use 17#Stren.  

 

This is what I use for my 25 ft tippet from my 30 # to the swivel. No problems at all 

I use 8# vanish on my Crankbait  spinning rod ,no problems . 

 

I use the same 17#  for the bait heads . It breaks just before or at the baithead . 

 4 breaks in 2 weekends and lost 3 bait heads . Never considered it might be A biteoff as I have had to ta ke the hook out of the throat of a few fish and maybe they use the head as leverage . No crimps . 

 

I don't think it can take the shock in that 

4 ft section   . 

I tie a Snell knot and yes,  I take my time tying the knot . And wet it . 

 

All I know is I fish a lot , more than most 

And catch a lot of big fish on 4# mono . 

When I use Flouro as tippet material .  , I have problems .be it this , fly fishing tippet.   Float / jig ,  or braid tippet for bass. 

 

I rarely break off trolling . 

 

I am going to try the Blue label and tie some 20#  mono and compare .   

 

Flouro all has the same properties , which are all documented in various tests . 

 

 

Stren Vanish....interesting.  I have a friend who learned the hard way.  We joke about his experiment with stren Vanish...….It makes your fish "vanish" is the line I came up with for him.   he thought it was great....4 times the line for the same price.  I told him he'd regret it.  He did.

 

In all seriousness and to try to help you.     I run 30# leader on my clean bait heads.  40# on my bait heads with twinkies.  20# with spoon lines or 15# with spoon lines if its mixed fishing (not just salmon) and a softer rod.  As you mentioned in one of your posts, the only reason to use fluoro is its invisible.  So take advantage of that and beef up!

 

River fishing - Drennan has a harder surface than the seguar.    I caught 4 kings on 8# Drennan trolling with brown trout gear this spring .  

 

 

Edited by Fat Trout

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2 hours ago, HB2 said:

Back in the day  , pre flea  , I ,and a lot of guys used 12# and 15# pink Ande or Trilene XT or Big game   , and almost NEVER ,broke off . Pulled dodgers with the 15 . And the fish were bigger . 

 

So why does the   Flouro to my baithead or My fly rod tippet etc of the same # test as the mono or heavier  break way easier than mono ? 

 

A guy on here said he had a hard time landing stream fish on 3.6 #  . That's not much less than the 4 I use most of the time with no problems . So why is that ? 

 

Mono is way more durable than Flouro . 

 

Flouro is more abrasion resistant than mono . But once it  abraides it is way weaker.  Kind of like a chip in your windshield . 

Maybe the fish I had break off swallowed the hook and the action of the line scraping over it's teeth compromised it . Or at least a,few,of them . I'm not above tying a,bad knot , but not all of them . And I know how to play a fish . 

 

The stuff just fishes different IMO . And I don't like it . The only reason to use it is because it is invisible . 

 

 

 

Back in the day, 17lb was more like 30lb.  Todays materials are thinner and made as cheap as possible to maximize profit.  Take a spool of Seaguar Blue label from ten years ago and compare it to a brand new spool.  There is a difference.  I found this out this past winter when I got my 30lb floro out to tie pike leaders.  I ran out and grabbed a new spool from the salmon box.  I was blown away at the difference between the two! 

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I seriously hope that the difference is due to better manufacturing processes resulting in a thinner diameter product, not some profit driven mantra, particularly for Seaguar. Take graphite. Today's rods can be made using nano-resin systems rolled under extreme pressures that allow them to be virtually weightless, yet stiff and strong. But these high-tech blanks cost an arm and a leg, even though there's less material.

 

Is anybody on here in the business and can comment on whether leader materials have evolved?

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I seriously hope that the difference is due to better manufacturing processes resulting in a thinner diameter product, not some profit driven mantra, particularly for Seaguar. Take graphite. Today's rods can be made using nano-resin systems rolled under extreme pressures that allow them to be virtually weightless, yet stiff and strong. But these high-tech blanks cost an arm and a leg, even though there's less material.
 
Is anybody on here in the business and can comment on whether leader materials have evolved?
From an engineering perspective. When the technology and manufacturing reliability becomes better and more repeatable the factor of safety can go down. That saves money. Its the same product just not as overbuilt. As far as line goes they are all pushing thinner is better so it all goes hand in hand.

Bottom line you always have to evaluate your gear and tactics. Experience is good but if you keep your brain stubbornly stuck in a mindset from 20 yrs ago you may have problems

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My humble opinion, we’re making too much out of this, 40lb to 50lb is heavy line. If it’s breaking continuously throw the spool out, or take it back. Buy something different. I use 4.00 big game when the fleas are in, never had an issue. Yea, made leaders out of it in a pinch. I think some are xx years old still. Yikes. Any way. I’m still looking for the Gary D rig info. We seem to be skipping that question.


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Posted (edited)

A couple of things come to mind" One is I stopped using Stren line years ago because of breakoffs even with the mono for whatever reason. Two is that not every package of line is equal. Sometimes line sits around in a store in direct sunlight heating up the package perhaps and deteriorating the contents over time maybe? Using high quality fluoro such as Seaguar and doing as suggested with wetting the line while cinching down and careful tying your knots should  yield good results if your reel drag is set properly. For many many years we fished kings with 12 pound test line without break-offs on Lake O prior to the fleas.

Edited by Sk8man

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I use a lot of mono and it is as good as it ever was  Maybe better . I like Trilene XL clear or Big Game for my casting rods . I ave even used Bass pro or Eagle claw,with decent results . Use to use 40# $1.99 mason for flea line . Worked Great ! 

 

As luck has it I talked to a bass guy  today and asked him if he used Flouro . He said " not any more , I hate the stuff " and pretty much said the some of the reasons I gave as why . 

 

The Gary D rig is still in R&D . 

 

But preliminary testing from mid July last year and up until last week for me have been excellent. I have caught everything but a brown on it . I catch More  kings on it than anything else I used  and it is the best lure in my spread this year . 

 

Nice to see that Seagaur has found their early version was less than stellar and improved it . 

 

I am going to ****can all the spools of Flouro I currently have so I won't be tempted in a moment of weakness to  use it . Except for the Drennen. 

 

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