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DEC Announces Actions to Protect Salmon River Fish Populations


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Speaking about Canadian tribs only on my response.  The season closes on Sept 30 for the prime spawning areas on the tribs that have a large number of natural reproduction.  I'm talking about the tribs on the eastern basin and not the cesspools on the western basin that used to harbor the largest runs on the north shore.

 

The Credit and Bronte do not get the runs they used to and egg collection on the Credit was fine but pales in comparison to what it was.  The eastern tribs are open for a few miles to the lake until the end of the year and then some have a full open season but that is for a shorter distance from the lake.  One thing that they have done correctly in Ontario is recognize the importance of closing the season for salmon populations to allow for natural reproduction and have done so for many years.  In fact, the season used to close much later and they moved that up to the end of Sept since the runs start in early Aug.

 

Not sure why some CDNS are pissy about closed tribs because of the COVID situation and really don't care.  The provincial government has no say in that decision as that is left up to the municipalities.  And for the one trib in question, the Ganaraska River, I welcome that decision as it is the worst display of illegal fishing witnessed anywhere.  Don't care if 50% snaggers/netters/pitchforkers ruin it for the other 50% legal anglers.  This is a different year and those people that are pissed off just need to accept that fact instead of cry about it.

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 6:26 AM, Sk8man said:

I guess in following this thread I find myself wondering 'Unless you are coming from New Mexico, Nevada or the Dakotas etc.to salmon fish for the first time why mess with the Salmon River at all when there are so many other good places to fish in New York State and fishing for the "zombies" has never seemed real attractive anyway?" It just seems that things have gotten so complicated and paying to stream fish seems to  really detract from the "sporting" aspect of it all. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion but I couldn't resist:lol:

There are really no other tributaries that offer the same morphology, although Oak Orchard and The Sandies up north come close, especially for swinging flies.  The Niagara is overwhelming, the Genesee and the Oswego are very large and also urban, the smaller tributaries are smaller.  The Salmon is "just right"!   I have spots that are closer, but I will still make sure I get up to Pulaski for at least a couple of days this fall, unless the emperor declares everything closed again.

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 8:27 PM, Gill-T said:


let me get this straight......neither you or King Davy are guides??  So who are you representing in the reported so called “secret” meetings with fisheries?  If you claim to be representing the common folk river angler in your quest for Atlantic Salmon for-all, who elected you guys to the position?

I think Dave has had a captains license, I know that his wife has a guides license.  I introduced a few people like Francis Betters, the Adirondack fly tying guru, and Tom Rosenbaur, vice president of Orvis, to the Tributaries, but that was back before Fran Verdoliva got his job with the State.  I realized that I could either guide or fish, and decided that I would rather fish and keep the day job, and then maybe get my license when I retired, but I don't have the energy to walk someone else all over the place all day, so when I can get away, I just fish.

 

I believe Steve LaPan has explained the various stakeholder groups on numerous occasions at SOL and SOR meetings.  He picked people who he, or other staff at DEC, knew from prior involvement with the fishery.  I go back to before the first stocking cuts ( you must remember the Jolliff Paper, I still have a copy). As I worked in Environmental Science, I was often a resource to the Fisheries Advisory Board, of which I am now an at large member.  Bill Abraham tapped me to facilitate at the Fisheries Congress (and when was there any "election" to the representation for that, Region 8 reps were all from the Charter Industry or government, no tributary anglers, although Regions 7 and 9 sent some). I often suspected to keep me from criticizing it, and I met Jerry Barnhardt and I think Steve Hurst through that function.  I have sent written comments on most proposals and management actions for over 30 years.  So I guess I have demonstrated a knowledge of the science and the data of the fishery, a willingness to listen to intelligent commentary, I have a track record of concern for the tributaries; in short I walk the walk, instead of just talking the talk.  It was my understanding that I was asked to be on the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission Stakeholder panel because of my background in science and involvement in the fishery and the lake from outside the DEC.  It is my sense from seeing the makeup of the  group that I was the US counterpart to Jon Johnson, a very brilliant Canadian Scientist I met in many other contexts ( Stormwater, Blue Green Algae and Cladophora, type E Botulism, etc) on the panel.  The " Secret" hatchery meeting was a one shot.  I am not on any group that has met in less than a year, maybe it's two, other than MCFAB.  But if you are worried about the GLFC panel, such illustrious Lake Personalities as Bob Songin, Vince Perlioni, and Jerry Ferluca do a great job of representing the "fill the box" crowd, and they were not elected, and I think all three serve on other stakeholder groups, so it is not like I am getting inordinate opportunity to influence decisions.

 

As to the Atlantic Salmon, I stopped lobbying for a major Atlantic program for the lake back when Carl Widmer was still running the show down here and they tried and failed to get them established in Irondequoit Creek, but I didn't argue against it, especially if it is the Feds who are doing it and paying for it.  And Jim Johnson was another of the great scientists I was privileged to meet and work alongside during my career. 

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 7:27 AM, GAMBLER said:

Isn't the board supposed to be stakeholders?  By stakeholders shouldn't it mean guides, captains and business owners directly effected by the changes and issues brought to the board?  If not, and two guys are on the board that the issues do not directly effect financially (ie. a business), that is wrong and should be changed.  

I didn't realize the agency had been renamed the Department of Economic Conservation.  I pay the same amount for a license to fish that you do.  You also buy a license from the Federal Government to operate a livery service.  I know and speak for lots of businesses that rely on the tributary fishery as well, so I am certainly a stakeholder.

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 8:31 AM, Yankee Troller said:

I'm still blown away that one river get so much attention for 2mos of the season. The bigger picture is all the small towns around Lake Ontario (US & Canada) who benefit from Salmon 6mos of the year. Since the DEC put fourth more regulations on the lake for Trout, and mentioned that Salmon are managed for the lake, we need to protect our Salmon as Lake anglers all around Lake Ontario. Canada closes their tribs. I'm not asking for a full closure. I'm asking for a closure until after egg take every year. The Salmon River is where a 90% of the stocked Salmon in Lake Ontario come from. Our best Salmon genes never make it to the hatchery. Some of our best Trout get ripped out by the slobs that Salmon season attracts. Low water years, like we have now, and the stocking cuts are not going to be good for the lake in the future. I've been fishing offshore for a month now. I do it every fall. Next years class isn't looking good. Our 3yr olds this year were the first 20% cut, and we saw how the mature fishery was this August/September. Next years matures are the 40% cut, and we're not seeing many offshore where they should be. 

I sent a comment to a friend at DEC to the extent that if the situation is critical enough to close the fly section, it would be logical to additionally require the release of all hens, and reduce the limit on males, and require salmon fishers to stop " fishing" once they had retained a limit, which would also help with the crowding and social distancing, which has to be a joke on some of those pools.

 

Since the second cut was 20% of what remained after the first 20%n , it is actually a 36% cut by my math.

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 12:53 PM, GAMBLER said:

We are all screwed if the DEC does not get eggs and the kings get ripped out with the low water.  We will have less stocking, less natural reproduction and EVERYONE will suffer as a result.  Who knows how much natural reproduction is going to effected with the super low water.  If kings cant get into the most fertile waters to spawn, natural reproduction will suffer that way too.  Protecting your investment when it is super vulnerable is a smart way of doing business.  Shutting down the river until the egg take is complete is a better option than letting it go and suffering for years to come.  With high natural reproduction from the Salmon River, this could have huge impacts on the future of the entire lake fishery (NY and Canadian waters).  I don't see it as a ME, ME, ME attitude, I see it as a concern for the fishery.  

If you owned a motel in Pulaski that could charge a 30% premium for a room in September and October, and still be booked solid, you would see it as a me me me attitude.

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 10:23 AM, GAMBLER said:

Lets compare angler hours to revenue.  I would bet the farm, the lake makes more $ than the tribs for the state and local economies.  If you add up all the money spent on charters, licenses, lodging,  tackle, electronics, slips fees, repairs, up keep, boat purchases, gas, lodging, launch fees, ect. The average trib angler has a couple rods, waders and a box of lures.  

Or maybe they changed the name to the Department of Environmental Commerce!

 

I have 9 rods that I use for Great Lakes fishing.  And about 25 more for inland lakes and streams.

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17 hours ago, fcboats said:

Speaking about Canadian tribs only on my response.  The season closes on Sept 30 for the prime spawning areas on the tribs that have a large number of natural reproduction.  I'm talking about the tribs on the eastern basin and not the cesspools on the western basin that used to harbor the largest runs on the north shore.

 

The Credit and Bronte do not get the runs they used to and egg collection on the Credit was fine but pales in comparison to what it was.  The eastern tribs are open for a few miles to the lake until the end of the year and then some have a full open season but that is for a shorter distance from the lake.  One thing that they have done correctly in Ontario is recognize the importance of closing the season for salmon populations to allow for natural reproduction and have done so for many years.  In fact, the season used to close much later and they moved that up to the end of Sept since the runs start in early Aug.

 

Not sure why some CDNS are pissy about closed tribs because of the COVID situation and really don't care.  The provincial government has no say in that decision as that is left up to the municipalities.  And for the one trib in question, the Ganaraska River, I welcome that decision as it is the worst display of illegal fishing witnessed anywhere.  Don't care if 50% snaggers/netters/pitchforkers ruin it for the other 50% legal anglers.  This is a different year and those people that are pissed off just need to accept that fact instead of cry about it.

 

I don't mind them closing Port Hope either. The COVID thing is just total hypocrisy though. It's okay to go into a McDonalds and stand 6 ft away from a person, but go forbid we fish outside in the open ... standing 20 ft from the next guy so lines don't get tangled ... yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me, not!

 

fcboats ... seems you don't give a rats a$s about anything but your situation ... so let's leave it to that ...

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The League club prosecutes trespassers religiously, and maintains a security staff to patrol their property.

Your misinterpreting what I am saying. I don’t condone trespassing. What I do not stand for is when some bullies off people when in fact they can do just what there doing. Dock owners on lakes do it all the time right? I call that grief. But when someone trespasses throw the book at them. Fully support it.


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2 hours ago, TyeeTanic said:

 

fcboats ... seems you don't give a rats a$s about anything but your situation ... so let's leave it to that ...

 

Not sure how you read that from my response. 

 

There is no 6' distance at the Ganny and if you think that is true, the only person you are fooling is yourself.  The sight of fish coming in backwards, sideways, slit bellies and decaying flesh is enough to shut down fishing there since people are performing their own personal egg collection. 

 

I don't care if it is open or closed and since you are the one complaining about it, who's thinking about whose situation here?  Go fish another trib that is open and quit griping about this.  Get over it man.

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3 hours ago, fcboats said:

 

Not sure how you read that from my response. 

 

There is no 6' distance at the Ganny and if you think that is true, the only person you are fooling is yourself.  The sight of fish coming in backwards, sideways, slit bellies and decaying flesh is enough to shut down fishing there since people are performing their own personal egg collection. 

 

I don't care if it is open or closed and since you are the one complaining about it, who's thinking about whose situation here?  Go fish another trib that is open and quit griping about this.  Get over it man.

 

I fish Ganaraska in April ... so unless you are saying I'm delusional ... I don't know how the heck you aren't going to tangle with a guy standing 6' beside you if you both have +12' poles ... it's insane to think you can fish with another guy fishing that close ... that I'm sure of ... I've been doing this for a couple of decades ... so take your COVID excuses for shutting down access to Ganny, and chuck them in the lake with your next down rigger weight. It's hypocrisy (or just an excuse) when it's okay to have hundreds of people in Walmart or Home Depot indoors with unsatisfactory HVAC systems to protect against COVID, but then it's not okay to be outside in the wide open next to a river.  YOU brought up the stupid COVID excuse on behalf of Port Hope ... I'm just pointing out how stupid it is.

 

As for the Ganny, I don't fish it in the fall ... I do fish other tribs ... but I take exception to your attitude to all river fishermen who fish ethically and do have a right to access the resource, just like boaters do.  You think it's okay if you own a boat, suddenly you have exceptional and exclusive right to the resource??  Whatever ... I pay enough taxes to know, I have just as much rights as you do. So, take your dismissive attitude towards river fishermen and chuck that into the lake, with your next down rigger weight too!

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 4:30 PM, TyeeTanic said:

 

Lately, the local towns have been prohibiting access to the rivers ... but that isn't from the Ministry of Resources.  They are either concerned with COVID or they are concerned about the garbage left behind by anglers.  So fishing isn't prohibited in the river, but fishing from the shore (the land the city owns) is prohibited.  Still, there are many tributaries to fish in Canada.

 

 

I'm sure you first mentioned COVID and he's just stated that Port Hope indicated this was a major driving force.  And I don't read what you are getting out of his responses to warrant your reply.  Take it easy and go fishing.

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1 hour ago, HBC said:

 

I'm sure you first mentioned COVID and he's just stated that Port Hope indicated this was a major driving force.  And I don't read what you are getting out of his responses to warrant your reply.  Take it easy and go fishing.

 

I'm reacting to this:

 

"Not sure why some CDNS are pissy about closed tribs because of the COVID situation and really don't care."

 

Using COVID to close rivers is just stupid in my opinion, if on the other hand it's perfectly "ok" to have 500 people inside a Walmart grabbing from the same vegetable boxes.  It's pure hypocrisy ... makes no sense, because you have probably 100x more risk catching COVID in the Walmart situation than on the shore of the Ganny. That is my point.  Closing access to Ganny due to COVID, is just an excuse the Town is using because they don't want to enforce fishing and pollution rules in the town of Port Hope.  So, I will write it down to laziness.

 

"Don't care if 50% snaggers/netters/pitchforkers ruin it for the other 50% legal anglers."

 

This is the I don't give a rats a$s comment ... let the good guys get punished, because we can't enforce the bad guys ... say goodbye to democracy and our rights with that kind of attitude ... welcome to the communist state!

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Gambler.... I had a good laugh today. I was talking to my friends at the hatchery ( on the phone) while up fishing the river. As you all should know they read this site all the time to see what’s going on in the circus.

 

They told me the guys at the hatchery started a go fund me page to help me recover from my failed charter business. I guess they only got about a buck fifty so far. So please buy my book folks.

 

Thanks.

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 2:15 PM, Frogger said:


Your misinterpreting what I am saying. I don’t condone trespassing. What I do not stand for is when some bullies off people when in fact they can do just what there doing. Dock owners on lakes do it all the time right? I call that grief. But when someone trespasses throw the book at them. Fully support it.


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If the deed for a property includes the riparian rights, that includes fishing and it vests with the landowner, and the courts have ruled on that.   I know landowners in the Adirondacks who pay taxes to the low water line on their lakes and I contend that they have the right to tell people they can't anchor or contact the bottom rom that point inland whether inundated or not.  If you are on a public lake ( anything with more than tow landowners, and the bottom is under NYS h jurisdiction, you can basically sit 1 foot off the end of a dock and fish as long as you are not impeding navigation.  Of course, I might decide it was time for a little RAP concerty in my front yard if people got too close.

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Your correct about landownership and bottom etc. Where I get bent out of shape is the “no fishing” because your in said area, not touching property, but said area is off limits to having any access to NYS owned fish. They should not be owned by a private business owner, which is what happens. Like I said earlier, someone with money won that case. It’s too bad really.


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Gambler.... I had a good laugh today. I was talking to my friends at the hatchery ( on the phone) while up fishing the river. As you all should know they read this site all the time to see what’s going on in the circus.
 
They told me the guys at the hatchery started a go fund me page to help me recover from my failed charter business. I guess they only got about a buck fifty so far. So please buy my book folks.
 
Thanks.
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United
 


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Gambler.... I had a good laugh today. I was talking to my friends at the hatchery ( on the phone) while up fishing the river. As you all should know they read this site all the time to see what’s going on in the circus.
 
They told me the guys at the hatchery started a go fund me page to help me recover from my failed charter business. I guess they only got about a buck fifty so far. So please buy my book folks.
 
Thanks.
 
 
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Just as many laughs from some old timers on Sandy that were laughing at your 50-70 trips per season response here the other day when I was working on the boat. 🤣


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