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Florida school shooting

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It is getting harder and harder to defend the second amendment. I just can't understand what is going on in our world. I am a grandpa and I find myself fearing for my family. Any of you have thoughts? Thanks

 

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Things have changed.  I grew up in the 50s and 60s.   Every pickup in the high school parking lot had a gun rack in the back window.  The high school had rife ranges is the basements.   Used to get on the bus with the 22 , had to keep the bolt in my pocket and keep the gun in my locker so I could ride with the coach to armory in the drivers ed. car.  We had rifle club there because the range wasn't finished in my school.  You would see the science teacher compairing shotguns with a couple on students in the parking lot because they had been grouse hunting before school.  I don't think is the gun its the people..  God they use trucks to attack.  Its how they are raised not the tools they use or the tv or games they watch.  IMO.

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7 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

Things have changed.  I grew up in the 50s and 60s.   Every pickup in the high school parking lot had a gun rack in the back window.  The high school had rife ranges is the basements.   Used to get on the bus with the 22 , had to keep the bolt in my pocket and keep the gun in my locker so I could ride with the coach to armory in the drivers ed. car.  We had rifle club there because the range wasn't finished in my school.  You would see the science teacher compairing shotguns with a couple on students in the parking lot because they had been grouse hunting before school.  I don't think is the gun its the people..  God they use trucks to attack.  Its how they are raised not the tools they use or the tv or games they watch.  IMO.

 

 

you realize somebody from "your generation" perpetrated one of the deadliest shootings in american history Dave

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People’s living environment has changed. The availability of assault weapons has increased and gun violence is on the tellie, movies and video games. That makes violence seem like the new normal.
At the same time, love making is banned from the open airwaves.
Growing up in the Netherlands I remember that gun violence on tv was severely frowned upon, while romance and love making was condoned. I cannot think of even one gun violence event in holland.
Maybe our media need to romanticize loving more and violence less


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My shift boss in his 30’s ,was a marine sniper overseas, came out with the statement,” a couple guys need to be shot here,” he also brags every pre shift SAFETY meeting about killling millions of people playing an online game with his phone. Still working here, the bosses know all about it. I really pity my children and grandkids, they also had a school threat and the kid was expelled.


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I'm a firm believer in the second ammendment, and I used to be an avid hunter. I still shoot at targets whenever I can. Like Dave, I experienced the same thing in school back then and the range was in the basement of the junior high school. In the military I was issued an M-16 (1st ones that came out) at age 18 and the first thing the range sergeant said to us was "This is not a hunting rifle it is a weapon and it is used to kill people not animals" I earned an expert ribbon for every weapon that we had available. I also gained a healthy respect for what these weapons do during the foillowing years. With all of this said I have strongly felt since that time that there is no place in civilian society for these highly lethal weapons. I know there are many here who feel that this is just one more instance of erosion of our constitutional rights suggesting that these weapons shouldn't be in civilian hands, and I am well aware of the differences between full auto and semi auto firearms and what actually coinstitutes an "assault weapon" but when 19 yr olds have open unrestricted access to things with multiple high capacity magazines something has to change....it should start with parents securing their firearms properly because there is no reason on Earth that a middle school child should be carrying a handgun in their backpack either as recently happened. Even in the military our arms were stored in an arms room and not permitted in the residential barracks .There are also the obvious mental health issues going undetected and/or unchecked, and the lack of effective facilities for treatment allegedly for bugetary reasons, the failure of neighbors or others detecting potential problems to report them to authorities in a timely fashion, the constant bombardment in the media, TV movies, and video games of extreme violence with segments of our culture seeming to thrive on it.Young people are allowed to spend copious amounts of time viewing the stuff without any supervision or any restrictions. Then you have the drug scene entering into things and the large scale gang influences replacing the traditional family contact and support of teens.The media also plas an important role as they give all kinds of attention to the perpetrators and constantly recite counts of victims etc. giving "copycats" the idea that they can "one up" the count and be "famous".

What I am saying here is that this issue of school shootings is only a part of what is wrong in our society and it is much too late to think that controlling guns is an answer to it  Our culture itself is "self-destructing" and you can see it in the lack of respect for the elderly, faulty childcare, the opiate crisis, children and teens having no respect for authority such as teachers or law enforcement officers, way too much leisure time for teens and too much money available with little to no responsibilities, parents spending time in bars or at the golf club giving kids money to occupy themselves, and the explosion of gang life to replace the parenting that should have been going on in our society. A cardinal sign is also that 10 percent of the people in our country control most of the wealth and the numbers are increasing. Sorry for the rant....but there have been 219 of these senseless shootings since 2013 and18 already this year....these aren't temporary or isolated problems and everyone (e..g. government) seems to always ask "why" instead of actually acting to change things to stop this stuff. Unfortunately, they need armed guards in schools and metal detectors and bulletproof monitored access points. No longer should it be acceptable to say we don't have the money....take it from other areas, and actively go after all the fraud and fake medicare billing etc. and use some of that money.

Edited by Sk8man
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These shootings have nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. Gun control is not the answer. Gun laws, like all other laws, only affect law abiding citizens. If guns we're outlawed only outlaws would have guns. The same way outlaws are still buying and selling illegal drugs. We know there are countless "assault style" rifles and high capacity magazines around this country that aren't being used to commit crimes. Hate the criminal, not the tool he uses.

Edited by Todd in NY
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2 hours ago, Todd in NY said:

These shootings have nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. Gun control is not the answer. Gun laws, like all other laws, only affect law abiding citizens. If guns we're outlawed only outlaws would have guns. The same way outlaws are still buying and selling illegal drugs. We know there are countless "assault style" rifles and high capacity magazines around this country that aren't being used to commit crimes. Hate the criminal, not the tool he uses.

What you say has been repeated to death and does not help at all. It just perpetuates the status quo. But there is a change in the air. This November many candidates for congress who have the NRA seal of approval will lose a lot of support exactly because they dance to the tune of the NRA.

Edited by rolmops

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Driving while texting,ILLEGAL aprox. 6.000 deaths per year. Lets go after Verizon Samsung etc.

Drunk driving, ILLEGAL,13,500 deaths per year. Lets go after Budwiser ,etc

Drugs that are ILLEGAL,64,000 deaths per year. Build a wall and hope for the best. Making weed legal is one big mistake.

  So making any sort of gun Illegal is going to accomplish what ? Maybe a bigger black market for them ,way too many out there to confiscate by big brother. Someone mentioned 10% of the population controls most of the wealth,not sure what that has to do with anything , been like that since day one all over the world. And they pay 90% of the taxes. Of course were not counting the communist, socialist countries which are ****holes to live in for the average person because of that. Yes all those shootings are tragedies and IMHO the only way to curtail it is to have a uniform at every entrance/main entrance and have all other doors work one way, exit.

Edited by Bozeman Bob
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Since I made the statement about the folks controlling the wealth I'll answer  your comment: It has to do with the fact that the huge disparity of wealth in our country means that there are more and more people who don't have any and they are becoming more and more desperate in trying to survive and this places all sorts of extreme stresses on our society emotionally and otherwise (e.g. violence and crime). Those 10 percent and the big businesses don't in fact pay most of the taxes proportionately - they have cadres of lawyers and accountants that they pay big money to keep it that way. We the middle class "suckers" are the ones paying the largest proportion of our money to the government.

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I would bet that there were just as many disturbed people in the world fifty years ago proportionally as there are now. There are just way more people now.

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Bozeman Bob, excuse my ignorance, but what does texting, drunk driving and drugs have anything to do with our children being slaughtered by assault weapons. I believe in the 2nd amendment, but I also know something has to be done!!!!!


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I see this post getting ready to slide off the cliff.......

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16 minutes ago, tyell1 said:

Bozeman Bob, excuse my ignorance, but what does texting, drunk driving and drugs have anything to do with our children being slaughtered by assault weapons. I believe in the 2nd amendment, but I also know something has to be done!!!!!


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There is nothing you can do, the point is. More people are killed by what I wrote and there are a ton of laws prohibiting the above ,including killing people. Yet it goes on, where is the outrage over 6,000 + deaths a year while texting and driving,why do they not make it a law that if the cell is going over 5 mph it shuts off and if your a passenger, too bad ,its shut down as well. Why not have a Key FOB that is finger imprinted and will not work unless you  blow into it and it detects no alcohol . If some one leans over and manipulates it, they get charged as well.  I could  go on ,but I am done with this never ending subject.

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1 minute ago, shinintimes said:

We have always had guns schools and kids so I ask you what has changed ?? 

Good question. What has changed is the invention of the internet. It has given everybody the possibility to express their thoughts and feelings  to the entire world without any checks and balances no matter how extreme they are. There are plenty of weird websites that glorify racism ,hatred and extremism. Kids and grownups can sit in their room in front of a computer  and absorb all of that without ever having to hear a modifying opinion or any other opinion for that matter. Our own children can be radicalized online without us ever knowing about it. It is a scary brave new world where extreme opinions are rampant and unchecked and where our own president declares whatever he does not like to hear to be "fake news". That is what has changed.

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I'm not nearly smart enough to understand what has changed to create conditions where we have regular mass killings, but I am smart enough to know that what was OK in 1975 simply isn't working anymore and changes need to be made.

 

The cynic in me believes that we are being used as pawns for those who stand to profit from the status quo. 

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Going to get me some popcorn.


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Keep it clean boys!

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Guys we can’t argue with each other , but let’s stop and think the last time a mass killing took place when a weapon was used that didn’t have a 20 or 50 round magazine was used


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