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chinook35

Wind Turbines on Lake Ontario!

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I heard about this on a Rochester news channel the other night. So, at least people of Rochester are now informed some what. So far it has been shut down in Oswego County, and Wayne. lets hope Monroe stands it ground. Did I hear this correctly that Niagara county was for the wind farms?

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[email protected];

[email protected]

Mr. Mayor & Ms Deputy Mayor,

Jefferson, Oswego & Wayne county legislatures have all passed resolutions telling the NY Power Authority that Windfarms in Lake Ontario off their shorelines are not wanted. I urge you to pass a similar resolution for the City of Rochester.

If you check the link below in my previous email,(below) you'll see they are asking developers for proposals for a section of water that goes from Long Pond past Chalotte, the River, Durand and past Irondequoit bay. They are not asking for 1 or two turbines, rather to install hundreds. (commercially available turbines only produce 1.4 Megawatts each under theorethically perfect conditions) NYPA will not pubicly reveal developer names but claim they have 11 developers "very interested."

These turbines stand above the water line nearly as tall as the Xerox tower downtown (397 ft)& take up tremendous space with up to 10 rotor diameters between them. (over 1400 ft) The area they're looking at is from the shoreline out to 150 ft of water.

NYPA won't, but the Dept of Homeland Security and the US Coast guard will establish large exclusion zones around these windfarms that will put a very large section of the water off-limits to fishermen, recreational powerboaters and sailboaters out of the Genessee River as well as put a major "hurt" on any plans to further develop the River and Port of Rochester area.

The Rochester Embayment is classified by the USEPA as a major "Area of Concern" due to the heavy metal and algae in the sediments of its mud & sand bottom. These sediments have been getting buried by successively cleaner sediments of the past 10/15 yrs or so, however construction of massive foundations and transmission lines will liberate pollutants and natural lake currents will redistribute them all the way to the 1000 islands. This will affect the drinking water of many communities, including Rochester.

Additionally, a couple years ago the Seneca Park Zoo with help from the NYSDEC has undertaken a project of stocking Sturgeon in the Genny. This endangered species is begining to make a comeback in our area. Additonally good reports of Atlantic Salmon (another endangered specie) are now beginning to occur along the lake. 33Kv transmission lines will disrupt their nearshore aquatic breeding grounds similar to what the US Army Corps of Engineers has found that electricity in the water helps prevent the spread of Asian carp in the Chicago Sanitary Canal.

I urge you to persue a resolution and tell the NYPA that we do not want an offshore windfarm off Rochester. Their experiment with offshore turbines will do more damage to the boating/fishing industry (which brings money into our area) and restoration programs (which are finally making good headway on the lake) than benefit the NYPA's financial quest under the guise of "green" energy.

Thank you

Tom B.

(LongLine)

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I heard about this on a Rochester news channel the other night. So, at least people of Rochester are now informed some what. So far it has been shut down in Oswego County, and Wayne. lets hope Monroe stands it ground. Did I hear this correctly that Niagara county was for the wind farms?

Don't forget that Jefferson County also voted against the pinwheels in the lake, too! :yes:

Galloo is another story.....

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There is lots of political posturing going on out here. For what it's worth, SENATOR George Maziarz stated for the record at last Sat nights Niagara county federation of sportsmen dinner, that he is "not comfortable" with windmills in Lakes Ontario or Erie.

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Wonder what "not comfortable" means in that respect. That if it gets the go ahead then he might not be comfortable around the sportsmen? ....or not comfortable with the big money talkers if it doesn't go ahead. I wish these guys we vote for would be more specific, and not just send back a generic letter in response to every ones concern. A nice honest answer or comment would be more like yes or no with an adverb of description like somewhat or extremely or not at all in favor of... or in the favor of something. I like George and I hope he is on our side (his track record is) but just a little more enthusiasm would be more comfortable for us.

Mark

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Rochester & Monroe - Looks like we're up next.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Patricia Malgieri"

To: "LongLine"

Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2010 10:15:21 AM

Subject: RE: WINDFARM ON LAKE ONTARIO

Mr. Bishop: Thank you for your email. It was so informative that I shared it with our Commissioner of Environmental Services Paul Holahan and several of his staff members, as well as our Corporation Counsel Tom Richards.

We've determined that Dan DeLaus, the county's Deputy County Executive, will be meeting with NYPA this month. He was appreciative of the background, and it will help the county in its position as lead agency.

Come on Rochester - Do the right thing :clap:

Tom B.

(LongLine)

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What not comfortable means is that he does not want to stick his neck out& he is on the fence or has "obligations" . How about " STRONGLY AGAINST" so there is no gray area. Remember all this come election time if he does not take a strong stand against .

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"Green" to an environmentalist means saving the planet. "Green" to a developer really means making money. Obviously NYPA is only trying to accomplish the latter.

NYPA makes statements in their marketing programs refering to "green" energy to gain sympathic views and approvals from people worried about the environment. Developers put up the windfarms; collect the tax credits; then sell the farms. The new owners find out that they can't deliver on the promises made by NYPA because a proper cost analysis wasn't done, just like Lewis County found out.

I'm glad this company took a look at the carrying costs before construction, otherwise Allegheny would have ended up with 55 derelicts that would probably be abandoned in 20 years.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

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my email to Monroe County Legislators Bebee, Antelli, Andrews, Esposito & Gamble:

Dear Sir,

The NY Power Authority is seeking proposals from developers to build offshore windfarms in Lake Ontario, of which one area is off Monroe County. The Jefferson, Oswego and Wayne County Legislatures have recently passed resolutions telling them that windfarms are not wanted off their respective county shores. I urge you and the Monroe County Legislature to also adopt a resolution and say “No†to the NYPA for the following reasons:

(1) Serious pollution will be spread: The Rochester Embayment is a USEPA Class 4 Area of Concern. The northern boundary of the Embayment is a line from Bogus point (just west of Braddock’s Bay) to Nine Mile point (in Webster). The AoC includes the river and Irondequoit Bay and then extends from the shoreline out to 145 Ft of water directly off the Genesee River.

http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/aoc/rochester.html#pagetop

The NYPA has requested windfarm proposals from developers out to a maximum depth of 150 ft in the Rochester & Monroe County area according to the NYPA sitting requirements. i.e. The same area as the AoC.

http://www.nypa.gov/NYPAwindpower/GLOWs ... ection.htm

The USEPA lists 12 beneficial use impairments for the Embayment. These impairments are predominantly due to sediments that contain bioaccumulative toxic substances such as heavy metals (Iron, Mercury, Phosphorous, etc) and algae. The algae beds, caused by Eutrophication (overload of nutrients i.e. phosphorous) are mainly responsible for the health concerns and the frequent summer closings of our beaches. The area has been improving but only because polluted sediments are becoming buried by a few successive years of cleaner sediments.

Construction of foundations and transmission lines will disturb the underlying polluted sediments and they will be redistributed along the Southern shoreline by the natural lake currents. A vast brown area develops and extends for miles after a small spring rain increases the flow the Genesee River. Sediment depths in some areas of the Embayment have been estimated to be over 50 ft deep therefore wind tower foundations will be massive and dig up a tremendous amount of pollution just to reach solid bottom. (This will affect drinking water supplies, including the county/city water drawn from Shoremont.)

Wind turbine energy is marketed as an attractive energy source however people don’t realize the massive size of offshore projects nor how much area they’ll require. The NYPA request for proposal calls for turbines standing 397 ft above the waterline, or roughly the height of the Xerox Tower downtown. Rotor diameters are upwards of 150 ft (bigger than the entire turbine at Harbec on Rt 104, Webster). Recommended Offshore tower spacing is 10 rotor diameters apart and in a minimum 5 x 10 array. Simple math shows that just a small windfarm will encompass approx 40% of Monroe County’s shoreline. The NYPA wants a larger utility scale windfarm of over 200 turbines.

(2) An established industry that brings money into the area will be put in jeopardy: The recreational fishing & boating Industry brings hundreds of millions of dollars into NYS every year. Monroe County also enjoys some of this revenue. There are over 1000 boat slips on the Genesee River and another 800 on Irondequoit Bay. These areas are the homes of yacht clubs, charter fishing boats recreational boaters & fishermen and are frequented by many boats visiting from other ports throughout the year. Additionally both areas enjoy popular Monroe County boat launch sites. A windfarm represents a great number of undesirable manmade navigational hazards for these recreational mariners.

The NYPA request for proposals declares that the determination of exclusion zones will be left to other agencies. With Vestas (a major turbine manufacturer) recommending a 1000 ft safety zone around each turbine, the Coast Guard and Homeland Security will surely put vast areas off-limits to the citizens of our county and visitors that enjoy our natural resource, thus the recreational marine industry in our area will suffer greatly.

(3) Endangered and threatened species will be affected: Land-based windfarms are known for affects on avian wildlife. Lake Ontario is not only on the Northeast Flyway†but is home to endangered aquatic species that are just starting to show signs of a comeback. A small Sturgeon, from the Seneca Park Zoo stocking in the Genesee River, was netted by the NYSDEC a little east of Irondequoit Bay just two years ago. Stray Atlantic Salmon catches have also been reported by fishermen in this area. American Eels are being stocked by the Canadians in hopes of preventing their becoming totally expatriated from Lake Ontario.

Restoration of the Great Lakes and native species is a goal of the Great Lakes Commission (GLC) which was established by a Treaty signed by the Federal Governments of Canada and the U.S. In addition, all of the Great lakes were declared a National Treasure by US Presidential Order #13340 just a couple years ago.

Turbines on the lake will have underwater transmission lines interconnecting them and running to shore. These lines will operate at roughly ½ Hz and over 33,000v. This is very similar to the electrical barriers that the US Army Corps of Engineers has built on the Chicago Ship & Sanitary Canal to deter the Asian Carp from entering Lake Michigan.

Every form of aquatic life in the lake depends upon the nearshore (less than 150 ft of water) environment for survival during some part of its life, whether it’s for feeding, spawning or growing to adulthood. Land-based windfarms have established mitigation plans whereby they set aside or create a small wetland for wildlife that has been disrupted, but windfarms can’t establish more waterway for the aquatic life if they’re built in the water.

(4) Turbine power generation depends upon the weather: Rochester has very unique weather to say the least. Many times major thunderstorms come up Irondequoit Bay yet it is bright & sunny over the Long Pond Area. Rochester is located on a cove in the Lake that basically protects the nearshore area from the prevailing westerly winds. As such, it can be a beautiful day here, yet Sodus gets buried with snow. Power generation will be highly variable in our area. On those hot muggy days of July/August, when electric demand is highest, we Rochesterians wish we had a breeze and turbines will be standing still.

Again, I urge you & the County Legislature to please pursue a County resolution telling the NYPA that an offshore windfarm is undesirable off Monroe County as the detrimental effects on our area will not be offset by the political or financial gains by Albany or downstate politicians.

Thank you & sincerely,

Tom Bishop

Feel free to copy, paraphrase etc any/all

Tom B.

(LongLine)

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The fact remains that there is plenty of space on land for these "Fads". How hypocritical to rob future generations of a pristine Great Lakes vista, leaving them no fishing and boating zones under the phony guise of saving the planet. If they are on land, they will still be an eyesore, but the dead raptors they kill will at least fall to the ground beneath them, instead of drifting away. Oh, maybe thats part of the convenience? Also, when the inevitable oil leaks occur, it will be easier to contain and clean up on land than in our drinking water.

Save all the "save the earth" stuff here. The people on this forum are educated, and have done/will do more for conservation with their sweat and pocketbooks than you can imagine.

The sad truth is, with the rapid development of India and China, nothing we do here will make a difference if your concern is greenhouse gasses. There are much better alternatives. This latest craze is being fueled by the money thats out there to grab, and you know it.

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Well, I can see someone chickened out. The above post is absolutely not a response to Longline whatsoever. First thing this morning there was a post saying essentially anyone who opposed the windmills was causing us to continue our dependance on fossil fuels, and didn't care about the Earth. I haven't read a post by Tom that I haven't agreed with yet, and I often learn from them. Sorry for the mix-up Tom, but it was a name I didn't recognize, basically taking a potshot.

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maybe just one at the moulth of each port O lets say the blades should be about 20 ft from the water.......Whats the average hight of a sail 24 ft.. :lol:

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Well, I can see someone chickened out. The above post is absolutely not a response to Longline whatsoever. First thing this morning there was a post saying essentially anyone who opposed the windmills was causing us to continue our dependance on fossil fuels, and didn't care about the Earth. I haven't read a post by Tom that I haven't agreed with yet, and I often learn from them. Sorry for the mix-up Tom, but it was a name I didn't recognize, basically taking a potshot.

Yup, looks like the NYPA mole tucked tail and ran away taking her bat and ball with her. Oh well.

Tim

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Vince,

That's why it's sometimes a good idea to hit the quote button when responding to a post like that. Even if the original is deleted, it should still show up in the quote box in your response.

Nice boat by the way :yes:

Tim

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Well, I can see someone chickened out. The above post is absolutely not a response to Longline whatsoever. First thing this morning there was a post saying essentially anyone who opposed the windmills was causing us to continue our dependance on fossil fuels, and didn't care about the Earth. I haven't read a post by Tom that I haven't agreed with yet, and I often learn from them. Sorry for the mix-up Tom, but it was a name I didn't recognize, basically taking a potshot.

Yup, looks like the NYPA mole tucked tail and ran away taking her bat and ball with her. Oh well.

Tim

I saw that post yesterday morning, as well, and my first thought was that this individual can, in no way, be one of us. They'll try anything to sway our feelings...NOT!!!

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No problem Vince. I admit I was taken back a little. (Actually I said WTF!?) I didn't see another post in there.

Here's a reply I got from one Legislator:

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick Antelli"

To: tjbishop

Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 10:33:03 AM

Subject: Re: OffShore Windfarm - Monroe County

Mr. Bishop,

Thank you for sharing your concerns on the issue of windmills in Lake Ontario. Currenlty, there has not been a proposal put forth by the New York State Power Authority or a developer. We intend to examine the issue carefully when it is presented to the Legislature. However, we will keep your concerns in mind as we move forward in the legislative cycle.

If you have further concerns please feel free to contact us through e-mail or by calling my office at 753-1922.

Regards,

Rick

-------

Rick Antelli

Monroe County Legislature

District 7

Tom B.

(LongLine)

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Here's an interesting national article from CNN regarding these things off of Cape Cod (interesting composite views of what the turbines would look like from shore) - click on the tab at the bottom "views from shore"

Man, it would really, really be disasterous.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/04/20/cape ... tml?hpt=C1

- Chris

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