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GAMBLER

2103 Fall LOC - NO LAKE TROUT DIVISON!!!!!

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What is Dave thinking? I heard rumblings last year that the same guys win it all the time. Complete BS. You are going to punish guys that target and succeed fishing a certain species? Also he is taking 20 chances to place in the derby away from entrants! :no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no:

Voice your opinion to Dave Chilson - [email protected]

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What is Dave thinking? I heard rumblings last year that the same guys win it all the time. Complete BS. You are going to punish guys that target and succeed fishing a certain species? Also he is taking 20 chances to place in the derby away from entrants! :no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no:

Voice your opinion to Dave Chilson - [email protected]

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I agree with you Brian, but I also heard it was due to the lack of LT stockings in recent years. I think we lost all of our LTs for this upcoming year from a storm last year in VT? I think his intentions were to protect the species, although if that was the case he'd get rid of the Spring and summer too.

I know Jim Piano is loving these rumors! :lol:

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I heard from at the awards ceremony last fall that it was because the same people win over and over again (Keldgys, Yablonski, ect). If he wanted to protect the species, the spring would be the first to go. There are usually 10 - 15 20+ lbers killed during the spring derby from the bar. The lake trout population is not hurting in the least bit. The numbers of lake trout are climbing back up there. Our catch rates have been climbing the past couple seasons.

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He also removed the chance of a Lake Trout taking the Grand prize for all three Derby's ! Be proud of your fishing habits Gambler they are changing rules to compete with your success ! Guess we are going to have to target more silver this year !!! All this over one freak 34.06 Lb chicken ! LOL

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I guess that's the thanks you get for letting them use two videos of you and your big laker as promotion on there website. Personally I think its a bunch of BS, don't blame you one bit for being pissed off.

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What is Dave thinking? I heard rumblings last year that the same guys win it all the time. Complete BS. You are going to punish guys that target and succeed fishing a certain species? Also he is taking 20 chances to place in the derby away from entrants! :no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no::no:

Voice your opinion to Dave Chilson - [email protected]

Actually what I heard is that he was paying those extra 20 places in the Salmon Division.

Tim

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I have sent an email to Dave and asked for his side of the story. What is FACT and what is FICTION. I have asked if there was or could be an Open Town Hall meeting, for all of us to discuss. I know the Yablonsky's, the Barber's and the Klejdys's have dominated lake trout, but i am happy for that and the challenge we all have to beat them or any other fisherman out there. Many times we dont field a full 20 steelhead on the leaderboard, because there are not as many of them as lake trout, but we dont eliminate that division, so we can keep fisherman from keeping them when they are caught. I dont see logic in eliminating lake trout but I want to hear from Dave or the LOC and what is really happening and if its etched in stone...etc! What's next, eliminating Mexico Bay in the fall, cause we are taking too many spawning Salmon out of the water? Okay, enough of my rant, before I really get started.

Jason

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I'm looking forward to hearing what Dave has to say. I can't see any reason to change the format, which has been successful and accepted for the past twenty years or more. I don't really understand what's the big deal if a laker wins the whole thing. It adds an element of drama to the show. How many of us were thinking last fall, "Jeez, it looks like that laker will actually hold up... amazing."

And if some guy wants to debase himself by chasing chickens, who are we to stop him? :D

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He is adding the money to the salmon division. Which more money is good. You look at the Rochester area and there are 1 or 2 kings that place in the fall derby. Lakers and browns make up the difference. You have upwellings that screw up the king, steelhead and brown fishing and charters / rec fishermen are left to fish lakers. How many charter clients are going to enter a derby when they go out on one of these days and fish lake trout that are not even in the derby? I bet they will not bother signing up the next time. Look what a format change did to the Pro Ams. Not a smart move. This will knock more people out of the LOC than it will add to the derby.

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Here is the response I got from Dave Chilson. Complete BS.

Jason and Brian,

Geez guys, I'm not sure if they would be considered "serious rule changes" by any stretch of the imagination but I will let you decide.

I raised the Grand Prize in the Spring Contest from $12,500 to $15,000, In the Summer it is going from $7500 to $10,000 and the fall is being raised from $20,000 to $25,000 and doubled all the division pay outs for the Salmon division in the fall. That's serious I guess.....With NO increase in entry fees. You can check out the complete prize payout break down at www.loc.org.

The only change I have made to the rules regards Lake trout. Lake trout are still in the Spring and Summer contests and have been eliminated from the Fall Derby.

We have had problems with lake trout stocking since the closure of the Lake Trout hatchery in 2006 due to disease and this year we received none to put into Lake Ontario. The USF&W is conducting a Lake Trout study in the Lower Niagara river and is seeking assistance in retrieving tagged fish, more information to come when it gets finalized. We want to help them in this effort and we surely don't want to put excessive amounts of pressure on this species.

We are making the onus of the Fall Derby on King Salmon. We are working with the counties in a renewed push to highlight the King Salmon fishing in New York. We believe it is the best place in the country to consistently catch large Kings in good numbers.

The West coast (which includes Alaska) has taken a big hit on their salmon and when you compare size and catch rates, nothing competes with Lake Ontario. And nothing compares with salmon for drawing visitors to the waters of Lake Ontario.

The reality of the Lake Trout division is that participation by derby entrants is very low. A small contingent of angler’s actively target the species and consistently place in the division, that’s for sure!

If you look at past Leader boards you will see what I mean. Take last fall for example. FIVE boats, Escape, Wet Net, Reel Crazy, Killer B’s and Ramblin Rose took over 60% of all division prizes and 80% of all daily prizes in the Lake trout division! Of course the Lake Trout Youth Winner came on one of the five boats. For a few it has pretty much turned into a guaranteed income stream so I can see where they would be upset.

Quite honestly the vast majority of people hearing about the changes and increase to the prize structure thought they were positive. Feel free to disseminate as you see fit and thanks for your support of the LOC Derby.

Have a Merry Christmas

Dave Chilson

LOC Derby

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Ya beat me to the punch, Brian. I think its BS as well if its about laker conservation. Then take it out of all 3 of the tournaments for a period of time, to increase numbers. But like you, I have seen a large increase in laker catches the last couple of years. Hell, half the time i am trolling for kings, I am getting lakers off the deep dipsy's, on SD/flies. I can understand why some people are upset at how those Niagara guys hammer the lakers and take alot of the prize money, but that is life. If fisherman dont like it, get better at fishing for lakers or target other fish, like Browns, which I am gonna have to learn to fall fish better for. I am disappointed by all this and hope that a decision will be reversed in a year or two. I guess in the meantime, I will have to fish differently in late August! or head to the east end!!!!!!! :lol:

Jason

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Agreed BS. If the committee is so worried about Laker health they would target the spring LOC. I am not sure if the DEC truly knows how many Lakers are in the system. I would gladly invite any of the researchers working on the "laker problem" to join me this spring and I will show them a world class-laker fishery. The problem of lack of spawning evidence is not a fishery-take problem (nobody keeps Lakers), but a pollution, alewive/thiaminase problem......and they ain't going to solve that in our lifetime.

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He is adding the money to the salmon division. Which more money is good. You look at the Rochester area and there are 1 or 2 kings that place in the fall derby. Lakers and browns make up the difference. You have upwellings that screw up the king, steelhead and brown fishing and charters / rec fishermen are left to fish lakers. How many charter clients are going to enter a derby when they go out on one of these days and fish lake trout that are not even in the derby? I bet they will not bother signing up the next time. Look what a format change did to the Pro Ams. Not a smart move. This will knock more people out of the LOC than it will add to the derby.

Agreed! Unfortunately Bri we don't fish close enough to either end of the lake to make a diff in the L.O.C. Entries may go down in the mid part of the lake now more than ever. Also, when I get 40th place in the salmon div. I'm taking that $10 to the bank!!!!!

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I think it would be a travesty to eliminate the Lake Trout Division simply b/c the same guys win it year in and year out. Yes, I continue to see Barber's, Kledjy's, Yablonski's over and over again, but so what? To me, these guys - and guys like Gambler - are the Michael Jordans of fishing lake trout. The reason we see the same names is because these guys have mastered their craft, and are competing against a smaller number of folks specifically targeting the lakers. They're smart, they've adapted and they're great at what they do.

I applaud a guy like Gambler who learns his craft well and adapts to target big lakers in an area when/where it's harder to land bigger kings that time of year. It gives him the best opportunity to win big money and he does a great job at it.

Look at what Michael Jordan did later in his career to give him the best shot at winning: when his legs tired and he no longer could compete with the big boys with flashy dunks and constant driving to the basket, he learned - and mastered - the turn around jumper, both to save his body and give him the best chance at winning. He still dominated and won three more championships.....and I don't remember the NBA banning the turn-around jump shot.

If it's a question of protecting the species b/c of a stocking issue, it's up to the DEC and not a tournament director to adjust creel limits for a given body of water.

I hope this will be reconsidered and making up for it by paying the "Top 40" positions in the salmon bracket simply waters down the meaning of placing on the LOC leaderboard.

Just my two cents now that I'm back from the woods and have more time on my hands to rant,

- Chris

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given the size of the lakers that show up on the boards you think they would want to promote the fishery how many places in the world can you catch a 30lb laker? as far as protecting the species i think i remember there shorting brown trout and salmon as well due to disease issues and random thought why do they only get lakers from VT why dont they get any from the finger lakes hatcheries? there is an overpoulation in a couple different fingers (keuka) to the point where they upped the creel limit so they could lessen stocking to suppliment lake O

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He is adding the money to the salmon division. Which more money is good. You look at the Rochester area and there are 1 or 2 kings that place in the fall derby. Lakers and browns make up the difference. You have upwellings that screw up the king, steelhead and brown fishing and charters / rec fishermen are left to fish lakers. How many charter clients are going to enter a derby when they go out on one of these days and fish lake trout that are not even in the derby? I bet they will not bother signing up the next time. Look what a format change did to the Pro Ams. Not a smart move. This will knock more people out of the LOC than it will add to the derby.

Agreed! Unfortunately Bri we don't fish close enough to either end of the lake to make a diff in the L.O.C. Entries may go down in the mid part of the lake now more than ever. Also, when I get 40th place in the salmon div. I'm taking that $10 to the bank!!!!!

Scott,

The salmon division is still only 20 places. He just doubled the money for each place. He has taken a 24.7% chance of placing away from the entrants. Would anyone still play the in the ground if your chances dropped 24.7%????? Also ONLY a salmon can win Grand Prize in all three derbies. I don't really care about that.

Chris,

Thanks for the kind words and support. I think a petition is in order. I will work on it the next couple of days.

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Last Spring was not a normal year. Look at years past leader boards to see where to fish if you want to target salmon. now that only a salmon can win the grand prize, why even target the other fish? Head to the west end . I would think that the Marina-Tackle shops & derby sponsers From the Point east would consider dropping out.

If you catch a 40 lb Brown ,laker or steelhead , you should win it all.Another reason to not get in for some.

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Can a moderator combine this post with the one in the Tournament forum? I think this thread needs to be in one place for both the fisherman and for Dave to view.

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i agree with Brian and Keith. Maybe we shouldn't fish the fall derby if that's what he's going to do.

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If somebody wants to fish for Mud Chickens, they should be able to do so. They are welcome to all the fun and prizes that go with that Division. It leaves more room for Salmon fisherman on the Bar.

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Lets just say the "seasons pass" will not be purchased. None of the reasons make any sense and are highly hipocritical.

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If in fact the main reason for the change is to "protect" the species, wouldn't it make sense to eliminate the laker division in the summer derby when there's less chance for survival of released fish? We never have too much trouble with fish going back down in the spring or fall. If guys are trying to win the money they're gonna release alot more than they keep.

As far as the same guys winning over and over, good for them. I've met a couple of these guys and they know there stuff and are willing to help others do the same.

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